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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: monka966 on May 15, 2019, 07:58:47 AM

Title: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: monka966 on May 15, 2019, 07:58:47 AM
Does anyone have pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration" by "Bishop" Robert Biarnesen? Please post them if you can. Thanks and God bless.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Maillot Jaune on May 15, 2019, 08:48:44 AM
What's the point in wasting your time and thoughts with that clown?
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: monka966 on May 15, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
I would like to see the paper miter again ; )
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Emitte Lucem Tuam on May 15, 2019, 07:10:46 PM
Well, you can still view “Pope” Pius XIII’s ( Lucian Pulvermacher) website...it’s been almost 10 years since he’s died.
http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/ (http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/)

They’re even contemplating a new “conclave” ...
http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/zapostolic/methods.htm (http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/zapostolic/methods.htm)

Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 15, 2019, 09:18:54 PM
Was he wearing pajamas in his Mom's basement for the occasion?

Of course they would have had to be white.

Anyone who would consecrate (or even just ordain) "Michael" would be ipso facto suspect of not being mentally competent to validly confer Orders.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 15, 2019, 09:21:44 PM
They’re even contemplating a new “conclave” ...
http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/zapostolic/methods.htm (http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/zapostolic/methods.htm)

Why the delay?  Why wouldn't Pius have appointed Cardinals, rendering the election of his successor a mere formality?
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: monka966 on May 15, 2019, 09:52:20 PM
Ladies and Gentleman I was hoping to get hyperlinks to the specific "ordination" and "consecration" pictures.

Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 15, 2019, 10:19:06 PM
Ladies and Gentleman I was hoping to get hyperlinks to the specific "ordination" and "consecration" pictures.

We know.  I doubt that such exist.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Your Friend Colin on May 15, 2019, 10:49:33 PM
Anyone who would consecrate (or even just ordain) "Michael" would be ipso facto suspect of not being mentally competent to validly confer Orders.
Couldn't you say the same about +Thuc and the Palmarians?
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: ByzCat3000 on May 15, 2019, 11:39:17 PM
Couldn't you say the same about +Thuc and the Palmarians?
I don't see why that isn't comparable.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on May 16, 2019, 05:57:41 AM
Couldn't you say the same about +Thuc and the Palmarians?
I think Lad. was using hyperbole.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Clemens Maria on May 16, 2019, 06:59:18 AM
Maybe because the Palmarians weren’t known to be batshit crazy when +Thuc consecrated them.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 08:18:50 AM
Couldn't you say the same about +Thuc and the Palmarians?

I don't think so.  It was a priest at Econe who asked +Lefebvre to look into the Palmar situation, and +Lefebvre reportedly told them to go see +Thuc.  Perhaps there we actual preternatural activities taking place near the apparitions, and +Thuc got suckered in.  In any case he denounced them as soon as Clemente came out as "Pope".  Clemente did not come out as Pope until well after the ordinations/consecrations.  Thuc certainly should not have ordained/consecrated these untrained laymen, but I'm guessing that he bought into the fact that Our Lady was appearing there.  Heck, +Williamson believes in Garabandal, and also believed in Dawn Marie.  And we don't consider him insane so that he could not validly ordain/consecrate.  Now, if +Williamson went and ordained Dawn Marie, well, that would throw everything up into the air.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 08:25:06 AM
I think Lad. was using hyperbole.

Of course.  The standard/threshold for mental incapacity is that basically you would have to have no idea what you were doing, i.e., have no understanding that "I am a Catholic bishop and am consecrating this man."  It's an extremely low bar for validity.

Now, I don't know enough about the episcopal lineage of the guy who allegedly consecrated Michael, but I have not seen ANY proof or witness testimony or anything that said ordination/consecration even took place.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Your Friend Colin on May 16, 2019, 10:26:31 AM
I don't think so.  It was a priest at Econe who asked +Lefebvre to look into the Palmar situation, and +Lefebvre reportedly told them to go see +Thuc.  Perhaps there we actual preternatural activities taking place near the apparitions, and +Thuc got suckered in.  In any case he denounced them as soon as Clemente came out as "Pope".  Clemente did not come out as Pope until well after the ordinations/consecrations.  Thuc certainly should not have ordained/consecrated these untrained laymen, but I'm guessing that he bought into the fact that Our Lady was appearing there.  Heck, +Williamson believes in Garabandal, and also believed in Dawn Marie.  And we don't consider him insane so that he could not validly ordain/consecrate.  Now, if +Williamson went and ordained Dawn Marie, well, that would throw everything up into the air.
Fair enough. It seems +Thuc was very easily influenced but not mentally incompetent. 
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 10:45:30 AM
Fair enough. It seems +Thuc was very easily influenced but not mentally incompetent.

+Thuc was a brilliant man, by most accounts.  I've heard stories from people who were there that he would switch easily between languages when at table with priests from different countries ... and this was after the +des Lauriers and +Carmona/+Zamora consecrations.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 10:48:43 AM
I believe that the initial ordinations/consecrations performed by +Thuc for the Palmarians must be considered valid even by Father Kelly's criteria.  You had a priest from Econe assisting/witnessing, and it was undoubtedly witnessed by many people.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Your Friend Colin on May 16, 2019, 10:56:40 AM
Which consecrations do people have doubts about with +Thuc? and why?
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 01:02:06 PM
Which consecrations do people have doubts about with +Thuc? and why?

I would have doubts about the ones that are not adequately witnessed or proven.  Anyone can go around claiming that he was consecrated by +Thuc.  Then, subsequent consecrations performed by those men would be doubtful if they themselves had not been adequately trained so that one might have confidence that they could properly administer the (relatively complex) Rites involved.

+Gueard des Laurier, +Carmona/+Zamora, and even +Dominguez et al. are unassailably valid.  +Guerard des Laurier's consecrations are also undoubtedly valid, as are +McKenna's ... so for instance +Sanborn.  And +Pivarunas->+Dolan are valid.  Now anyone +Dominguez consecrated, or some of those other chumps who probably had little training ... those are doubtful.
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on May 16, 2019, 04:47:28 PM
I believe that the initial ordinations/consecrations performed by +Thuc for the Palmarians must be considered valid even by Father Kelly's criteria.  You had a priest from Econe assisting/witnessing, and it was undoubtedly witnessed by many people.
I agree, but why do you write “Father” not “Bishop” Kelly? Do you question his orders from Bishop Mendez?
Title: Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on May 16, 2019, 04:48:40 PM
I would have doubts about the ones that are not adequately witnessed or proven.  Anyone can go around claiming that he was consecrated by +Thuc.  Then, subsequent consecrations performed by those men would be doubtful if they themselves had not been adequately trained so that one might have confidence that they could properly administer the (relatively complex) Rites involved.

+Gueard des Laurier, +Carmona/+Zamora, and even +Dominguez et al. are unassailably valid.  +Guerard des Laurier's consecrations are also undoubtedly valid, as are +McKenna's ... so for instance +Sanborn.  And +Pivarunas->+Dolan are valid.  Now anyone +Dominguez consecrated, or some of those other chumps who probably had little training ... those are doubtful.
For what it’s worth, this mirrors my thoughts on the subject.