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Author Topic: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"  (Read 1625 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 10:45:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Your Friend Colin on May 16, 2019, 10:26:31 AM
    Fair enough. It seems +Thuc was very easily influenced but not mentally incompetent.

    +Thuc was a brilliant man, by most accounts.  I've heard stories from people who were there that he would switch easily between languages when at table with priests from different countries ... and this was after the +des Lauriers and +Carmona/+Zamora consecrations.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
    « Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 10:48:43 AM »
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    • I believe that the initial ordinations/consecrations performed by +Thuc for the Palmarians must be considered valid even by Father Kelly's criteria.  You had a priest from Econe assisting/witnessing, and it was undoubtedly witnessed by many people.
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    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
    « Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 10:56:40 AM »
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    • Which consecrations do people have doubts about with +Thuc? and why?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
    « Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 01:02:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Your Friend Colin on May 16, 2019, 10:56:40 AM
    Which consecrations do people have doubts about with +Thuc? and why?

    I would have doubts about the ones that are not adequately witnessed or proven.  Anyone can go around claiming that he was consecrated by +Thuc.  Then, subsequent consecrations performed by those men would be doubtful if they themselves had not been adequately trained so that one might have confidence that they could properly administer the (relatively complex) Rites involved.

    +Gueard des Laurier, +Carmona/+Zamora, and even +Dominguez et al. are unassailably valid.  +Guerard des Laurier's consecrations are also undoubtedly valid, as are +McKenna's ... so for instance +Sanborn.  And +Pivarunas->+Dolan are valid.  Now anyone +Dominguez consecrated, or some of those other chumps who probably had little training ... those are doubtful.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
    « Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 04:47:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 10:48:43 AM
    I believe that the initial ordinations/consecrations performed by +Thuc for the Palmarians must be considered valid even by Father Kelly's criteria.  You had a priest from Econe assisting/witnessing, and it was undoubtedly witnessed by many people.
    I agree, but why do you write “Father” not “Bishop” Kelly? Do you question his orders from Bishop Mendez?
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Pictures of "Pope" Michael's "Ordination" and "Consecration"
    « Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 04:48:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 16, 2019, 01:02:06 PM
    I would have doubts about the ones that are not adequately witnessed or proven.  Anyone can go around claiming that he was consecrated by +Thuc.  Then, subsequent consecrations performed by those men would be doubtful if they themselves had not been adequately trained so that one might have confidence that they could properly administer the (relatively complex) Rites involved.

    +Gueard des Laurier, +Carmona/+Zamora, and even +Dominguez et al. are unassailably valid.  +Guerard des Laurier's consecrations are also undoubtedly valid, as are +McKenna's ... so for instance +Sanborn.  And +Pivarunas->+Dolan are valid.  Now anyone +Dominguez consecrated, or some of those other chumps who probably had little training ... those are doubtful.
    For what it’s worth, this mirrors my thoughts on the subject.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?
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