Author Topic: Personal confessions without a priest (Read 6858 times)

amariec · « **on:** January 12, 2010, 03:42:35 PM »

I am currently in a position where i cannot go to confession as regularly as i need to. Is it wrong to make personal confessions to God on my own? I would like to go to confession regularly, once a week if i could, but cant.

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2010, 03:57:23 PM »

Catholics must stay out of mortal sin. And if we absolutely cannot make a confession to a Catholic priest on earth, we should address one who is in the Communion of Saints, as this is much more humble than presuming to address God directly. Catholics should let the saints intercede for us; that's God's will.

We must also do penance for our sins, without which our confession is in vain.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2010, 05:32:42 PM »

Of course, personal confession does not take the place of Sacramental Confession. In the case of mortal sin, one cannot receive Holy Communion until he has made Sacramental Confession, even if he thinks he may have received the grace to make an act of perfect contrition.

Now, there are still many validly-ordained (ordained before 1968/9 or so) priests floating around out there. I have not read any Traditionalists call into question the validity of the new form of absolution. Of course, with the Motu you can always ask the priest if he's willing to absolve you according to the traditional form. I've found that many priests are happy to oblige, since it takes them back and fills them with nostalgia. In my relatively small Novus Ordo diocese, I looked through the directory of clergy and found nearly 150 validly-ordained older priests still floating around. They live in apartments, nursing homes, or are sometimes still active in parishes or monasteries. You can make appointments with them to make regular Confession.

I've thought it would be nice to contact these priests, especially the ones in nursing homes, and help set them up to offer the Tridentine Mass.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2010, 05:42:16 PM »

You absolutely need a priest for confession. ONLY A PRIEST.

I beg you not to fall for the make-it-up-as-you-go along crowd.

Laudislaus is correct; there are hundreds of valid priests who can hear your confession AND ABSOLVE YOU OF YOUR SINS.

Laypeople have not got the power to do so. The only thing we can do is baptise in danger of death.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:06:51 PM »

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Now, there are still many validly-ordained (ordained before 1968/9 or so) priests floating around out there.

Do you deny the validity of the Thuc consecrations, Ladislaus?

Heretics do not have the power of the keys. It's in St. Thomas, not to mention Paul IV in cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio demands that we avoid heretics, even if they are cardinals or the Pope, who of course would cease being cardinals or the Pope.

You have "trads" in Novus Ordo and in SSPX who know that their priests are heretics and go there anyway for the sacraments. This must be a new phenomenon, and is radically different than how Catholics acted during the Arian crisis.

The Eucharist is confected, but instead of bringing you grace, it may redound to your dishonor. As for confession, heretics can't absolve sins. Heretics are not in the Church. God MAY absolve sins through them, through your contrition, but He can also do that with someone who simply waits for a real priest, and this person also avoids sacrilege.

St. Thomas also says to confess to a layman in certain cases, like if your priest is a heretic or your confession to him would be dangerous. I imagine he means if the priest is collecting information in confession to blackmail people. You have to intend to re-confess as soon as possible though. The layman of course has no power to forgive the sins but it shows God that you respect the sacrament, which is crucial, because to respect the sacrament is to respect the Church.

To just assume we are forgiven without confession, even if we have perfect contrition, could be fatal. It is presumption and offensive to the Church that Christ founded. But to avoid a heretical priest is not anything like that, and it is disturbing that people these days will go to Mass with anyone in a cassock.

CM · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:16:37 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

You have "trads" in Novus Ordo and in SSPX who know that their priests are heretics and go there anyway for the sacraments. This must be a new phenomenon, and is radically different than how Catholics acted during the Arian crisis.

Or during the French revolution. Take the Vianney family, for instance. When they learned that their priest had taken the oath to the new constitution, they left their formerly Catholic parish immediately.

How much more so should we flee those who have taken oaths of obedience to Benedict XVI and his predecessors, who have all promulgated and formally accepted Vatican II? Or likewise any prelates who accept, support or defend the American Constitution?

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The Eucharist is confected, but instead of bringing you grace, it may redound to your dishonor.

If you know that he's a heretic? Absolutely it will. It is like receiving the body of Christ and sacrificing it to satan.

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As for confession, heretics can't absolve sins. Heretics are not in the Church. God MAY absolve sins through them, through your contrition

Only if you are invincibly ignorant that your prelate is a heretic.

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To just assume we are forgiven without confession, even if we have perfect contrition, could be fatal. It is presumption and offensive to the Church that Christ founded. But to avoid a heretical priest is not anything like that, and it is disturbing that people these days will go to Mass with anyone in a cassock.

Roger that.

Jamie · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:53:59 PM »

Quote from: CM

Quote from: Raoul76
The Eucharist is confected, but instead of bringing you grace, it may redound to your dishonor.

If you know that he's a heretic? Absolutely it will. It is like receiving the body of Christ and sacrificing it to satan.

If you are walking past a Church and inside a priest is about to use a validly consecrated host for a black Mass and you are able to steal the truly consecrated host from him, are you sacrificing it to Satan by consuming it in order to prevent it being used in an abusive way?

Raoul76 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:54:17 PM »

CM said:

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How much more so should we flee those who have taken oaths of obedience to Benedict XVI and his predecessors, who have all promulgated and formally accepted Vatican II? Or likewise any prelates who accept, support or defend the American Constitution?

That brings up something I've been meaning to ask -- would you have been a home-aloner in say, 1890, if you lived in America and all the priests accepted the separation of Church and state? How about if you lived in France during the reign of Louis XIV and all the clergy were Gallican?

I say "yes" to the former, "no" to the latter, because Gallicanism only borders on heresy to me. It's more a lack of disciplinary obedience than spiritual obedience and the priests would be the ones who are judged for it, not the laity.

I just read cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio and forget about the Council of Basel -- that one makes the home-alone position ESSENTIAL in our day, as I see it, and I'm sure as you see it CM.

All I have to do is figure out BoD at long last, that is the last hurdle, and then get a job delivering pizzas or whatever while waiting for the country to crash. I'm feeling pretty confident now that I have the right approach to the crisis, and that God has given me a chance to be saved, although I doubt there's any way to escape a long haul in Purgatory, and I'll be extremely lucky to even get there.

Jamie · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:58:30 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

I'm feeling pretty confident now that I have the right approach to the crisis, and that God has given me a chance to be saved, although I doubt there's any way to escape a long haul in Purgatory, and I'll be extremely lucky to even get there.

Confidence in one's own salvation is rather a dangerous thing - and a very protestant thing. Regarding purgatory, you are always able to get plenary indulgences if you meet the conditions. These will remove all temporal punishment owing to you and let you start over.

CM · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:05:21 PM »

Quote from: Jamie

Quote from: CM
Quote from: Raoul76
The Eucharist is confected, but instead of bringing you grace, it may redound to your dishonor.

If you know that he's a heretic? Absolutely it will. It is like receiving the body of Christ and sacrificing it to satan.

If you are walking past a Church and inside a priest is about to use a validly consecrated host for a black Mass and you are able to steal the truly consecrated host from him, are you sacrificing it to Satan by consuming it in order to prevent it being used in an abusive way?

That is not stealing. If one can rescue the Lord from His captors, I will not say it is a duty, but it is not forbidden.

But can you go kneel before the heretic or commune with him in his profane rites to do so? No. You cannot even give the appearance that you are a member of his sect.

CM · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:11:31 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

That brings up something I've been meaning to ask -- would you have been a home-aloner in say, 1890, if you lived in America and all the priests accepted the separation of Church and state? How about if you lived in France during the reign of Louis XIV and all the clergy were Gallican?

I say "yes" to the former, "no" to the latter, because Gallicanism only borders on heresy to me. It's more a lack of disciplinary obedience than spiritual obedience and the priests would be the ones who are judged for it, not the laity.

I don't know enough about Gallicanism to be able to give a good answer, sorry. Perhaps you could educate me on this point (with sources please)?

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I just read cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio and forget about the Council of Basel -- that one makes the home-alone position ESSENTIAL in our day, as I see it, and I'm sure as you see it CM.

They both do.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:27:33 PM »

Jamie said:

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Confidence in one's own salvation is rather a dangerous thing - and a very protestant thing."

Raoul76 said:

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"I'm feeling pretty confident now that I have the right approach to the crisis, and that God has given me a chance to be saved, --"

This is not confidence in my salvation. The confidence is that I have the right approach, but in a time like this, confidence in salvation would be borderline insane. For all I know, God has abandoned us all, and it sometimes feels like that to me. But I try not to despair because it's a sin. My fear and trembling are beyond description but I don't wallow in it publicly. If I gave into it, I would crumble.

I'm actually worried because I'm becoming a little bit "hard." When I first became Catholic I could not accept the notion that I might go to hell. Now sometimes I have dark, fatalistic moments, almost masochistic, where I think "You're doomed, just give into it." I know, of course, this is a temptation.

I have many problems in my life besides figuring out the right theological position or keeping the dogmas together. Many moral problems that may take me down. I don't mean sins, but for instance, I'm living off family money that is kind of dirty -- we wouldn't have it if we were Catholic all along. If I can't get a job, will I have the strength to leave it all behind and be homeless? Is that what God wants from me? These are the questions that torment me.

CM · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:36:29 PM »

Read St. Thomas Aquinas on the Doctrine of Double Effect (but do ignore the Modernist spin).

Jamie · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:49:54 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

I have many problems in my life besides figuring out the right theological position or keeping the dogmas together. Many moral problems that may take me down. I don't mean sins, but for instance, I'm living off family money that is kind of dirty -- we wouldn't have it if we were Catholic all along. If I can't get a job, will I have the strength to leave it all behind and be homeless? Is that what God wants from me? These are the questions that torment me.

I am not sure you should be especially concerned about living off family money when that money was originally gained through crime, etc. You didn't do the crimes. Wealthy American families who are rich through the slave trade of days gone by aren't culpable for what their ancestors did (I am, of course, talking about the immoral slave trade, and not those who were moral slave owners).

I would think you would be more in danger of the loss of your soul on the streets than safely at home living on family money. Now, that aside, you should certainly try to find a job if for no other reason that to give yourself routine in your day and to meet new people (whom you can then try to subtly convert!)

Jamie · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »

Quote from: CM

Read St. Thomas Aquinas on the Doctrine of Double Effect (but do ignore the Modernist spin).

Are you saying St Thomas Aquinas was a modernist or am I not reading between the lines when I ought to be?