Author Topic: Parents, what would you do? (Read 6040 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** June 23, 2012, 12:08:22 AM »

A question about what really happened. I was shocked when I heard it. It is good to know what a catholic parent might have done in similar situation.
A 14 year old girl falls in love with a boy 1 year her senior. They beg their parents to let them marry! The parents naturally oppose this decision and no amount of discussion, punishment and professional counseling can help. They might even promise the children that once they grow up they can marry if they are still in love then." But they want it NOW!
Time passes and kids seem to be calmed down a little. But one morning the kids don't wake up, they both are dead with a ѕυιcιdє note near their beds:" We decided to kill ourselves because they didn't let us marry." Notice that things like that can happen even to 12 year old kids.
What should the parents have done?

ggreg · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2012, 01:29:40 AM »

They should have raised less selfish children and trained them to listen to their parents and trust them.

Teenagers should not want to top themselves. Something is very wrong in their formation.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2012, 04:14:29 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

A question about what really happened. I was shocked when I heard it. It is good to know what a catholic parent might have done in similar situation.
A 14 year old girl falls in love with a boy 1 year her senior. They beg their parents to let them marry! The parents naturally oppose this decision and no amount of discussion, punishment and professional counseling can help. They might even promise the children that once they grow up they can marry if they are still in love then." But they want it NOW!
Time passes and kids seem to be calmed down a little. But one morning the kids don't wake up, they both are dead with a ѕυιcιdє note near their beds:" We decided to kill ourselves because they didn't let us marry." Notice that things like that can happen even to 12 year old kids.
What should the parents have done?

Often parents care more about their ambitions for their children than for the spiritual or moral well-being of their children.

While this sort of thing happens with regard to love, it can also happen when parents or guardians (or priests!) disregard complaints about abuse at school.

Often people forget what it was like to be that age, and they show callous disregard for the troubles that people that age face.

I don't know what the parents actually did, but one thing that often occurs is parents simply refuse to listen - point blank - to what their children are telling them. They also refuse to heed warnings. It's unwise, arrogant behavior that younger, more inexperienced parents (especially younger fathers) will often display.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2012, 06:20:00 AM »

While teenage sex is not a good thing these days parents care more for a child going to college (when did this become so important?), getting a degree, and getting a nice career more than being a good wife and mother or going into the labor force or military and working hard.

Instead early marriage and the ideals of working hard should be emphasized more than intellectual development. Something I've learned during my short 21 years on earth: the physical aspects of my body have always helped me more than reading intellectual fare, which has always been secondary, and most times unimportant.

Physical fitness is much more important than being an intellectual.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2012, 06:23:39 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

It's unwise, arrogant behavior that younger, more inexperienced parents (especially younger fathers) will often display.

See Tele doesn't blame women for everything. :wink:

Yeah knowing how men are and how they say, "Oh my little princess I'll do anything for you!" unfortunately "daddy's girl" will grow up spoiled and wanting the "good life" instead of the hard work of being a wife and mother.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2012, 06:29:58 AM »

Another thing I've noticed: Fathers of girls always look down on working-class guys as if they are unworthy for their daughters since they can't promise to give their daughters the "good life." So the father of the girl looks with suspicion (especially in trad circles; geez you need the father's approval to even go near the girl) on those of the lower-class because these guys could only give the girls an apartment, working two jobs, etc. and the fathers want something more for their "little princesses."

MyrnaM · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2012, 09:26:42 AM »

All I can say is, when I was raising my children, I told them they were NOT allowed to date at all, till 18 years old. I told them it was normal for them to like someone, but just keep it to themselves, meaning don't let the person you were attracted to know. I was firm about that!. My girls were very attractive when they were that age, but to my surprise they did not date, they honored me that way. I had fun with my children, and they knew I loved them, maybe that is why they honored my rule. Today I see parents allowing their children all sorts of privileges with the opposite sex, and what can they expect down the road.

Parents have to pick their battles these days, if you pick, pick, pick at your children they will, when they are teens rebel, but if you allow them to express themselves in their rooms, with decor, encourage them to get involved with a hobby, let them make a mess, and laugh with them. Then when you come down on them with a particular, serious matter they will hear you and listen.

Matthew · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2012, 12:30:21 PM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Another thing I've noticed: Fathers of girls always look down on working-class guys as if they are unworthy for their daughters since they can't promise to give their daughters the "good life." So the father of the girl looks with suspicion (especially in trad circles; geez you need the father's approval to even go near the girl) on those of the lower-class because these guys could only give the girls an apartment, working two jobs, etc. and the fathers want something more for their "little princesses."

"The good life"?

How about -- be able to support her and the children that will inevitably come along?

Read my posts -- I'm completely against the American suburban lifestyle -- but you *do* need to provide a stable living environment for your wife and children -- preferably be able to stay in the same location for more than a year or two. That is very important for the emotional well-being of young children.

Even if that stable environment involves no vacations, eating out, and having to line-dry all your laundry, that's fine. If it involves never buying anything brand-new, that's fine. If you don't have any savings, or you can't "guarantee the future", fine. Trust in God to provide.

I'm not looking down on the hard-working poor (or "house poor" -- that's where you're low-income but managed to work and sacrifice enough over many years to pay off a house). Wealth is often an obstacle to salvation.

But a man *must* be able to support his wife and children. And that means making enough for the wife to stay home and raise/educate the children. If you're too "poor" for that, whether because of low income, or lack of skill at frugality, then you don't belong getting married yet.

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2012, 12:39:32 PM »

Apartments are fine for single people, but they're no place to raise a family.

Generally speaking, apartments are for those who are *not* seeking stability -- those who might need to move quickly (for example, recent college graduates, single men & women, etc.)

Why buy a house if your future wife (and future place of residence) might be several states away?

Not to say that all apartment-dwellers are losers or drug addicts. Widows or the elderly might want (or need!) to downsize -- maybe they can't take care of a house anymore and/or they don't need all the space their house provided, which formerly housed their family of 12, so they move into an apartment to save money. A young person moving to a new town will obviously start out in an apartment, until he gets established with a job, makes sure he likes the job, etc.

But when you're starting a family your family will likely grow, and require stability.

Renting a house is always more expensive than taking out a mortgage on the same house. That's because the landlord needs to make his cut.

So if you have good credit (and you should -- what, are you a deadbeat on your bills?) there's no reason to not get a house -- whatever you can afford -- rather than mess around with apartments.

If you plan to get married, that is (which, for a Catholic, implies "starting a family" from the outset).

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2012, 01:06:56 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

"The good life"?

How about -- be able to support her and the children that will inevitably come along?

Read my posts -- I'm completely against the American suburban lifestyle -- but you *do* need to provide a stable living environment for your wife and children -- preferably be able to stay in the same location for more than a year or two. That is very important for the emotional well-being of young children.

Even if that stable environment involves no vacations, eating out, and having to line-dry all your laundry, that's fine. If it involves never buying anything brand-new, that's fine. If you don't have any savings, or you can't "guarantee the future", fine. Trust in God to provide.

I'm not looking down on the hard-working poor (or "house poor" -- that's where you're low-income but managed to work and sacrifice enough over many years to pay off a house). Wealth is often an obstacle to salvation.

But a man *must* be able to support his wife and children. And that means making enough for the wife to stay home and raise/educate the children. If you're too "poor" for that, whether because of low income, or lack of skill at frugality, then you don't belong getting married yet.

Well a woman's fertility goes down after 24 years of age. That is why the 20-24 year range is the ideal age range for marriage for women. Men should naturally be a little older than that so they do have enough money to support a family. But you know I have to say it shows a real American immorality where large families are not supported in America but instead are looked down upon and instead college and careers are praised. When I'm talking about the good life I'm talking about our "good old American values" of consumerism, hedonism, individualism, and selfishness. As for the apartment thing I think if the children are babies or toddlers apartments are okay as long as there is no more than 4 children.

I'll tell you something: I come from a middle-class background and my grandmother spoiled me and told me to "follow my dreams" and to work hard in school. After 19 years of doing that I realized that it really means nothing. I do blue collar work and though I'm tired every day I don't hate my job. It is truly idiotic that there is such contempt for physical labor, contempt for those without college degrees, and contempt for those who live in apartments as "white trash." (This is not directed at you)

The real problem is as I said our government refuses to subsidize large families. In a true moral society the government would support large families.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2012, 02:26:33 PM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

The real problem is as I said our government refuses to subsidize large families. In a true moral society the government would support large families.

What would the gov't subsidizing large families look like to you?

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2012, 02:43:44 PM »

Well tax credits for each child should be raised for one, employers should be encouraged to pay higher wages to fathers with a family instead of single workers, the tax burden should be shifted off of families and onto consumption, imports, and corporations, etc.

The values of the counterculture and feminism are deeply involved in our society.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2012, 02:56:18 PM »

Hmm those Catholic fathers I was speaking of must be thumbing down my posts. :wink:

MaterDominici · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2012, 03:15:20 PM »

Quote from: Traditional Guy 20

Well tax credits for each child should be raised for one

How much? I think they're scheduled to drop soon. Are you saying they're not high enough now, or the present amount should be made permanent?

Quote

employers should be encouraged to pay higher wages to fathers with a family instead of single workers,

That's not exactly the gov't. What if the employer is the father of a family himself? How could this strategy help him? Or would this only apply to certain businesses?

Quote

the tax burden should be shifted off of families and onto consumption, imports, and corporations, etc.

Many large families already don't pay income tax. What other taxes would you cut to target large families?

I can certainly think of one big hole, but most of what I think would help large families (in the US) would involve expansion of existing programs. The fact is large families are already subsidized over small families, it's only a question of is it to an adequate degree or not.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2012, 03:23:28 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

How much? I think they're scheduled to drop soon. Are you saying they're not high enough now, or the present amount should be made permanent?

About $3,000 or more.

Quote

That's not exactly the gov't. What if the employer is the father of a family himself? How could this strategy help him? Or would this only apply to certain businesses?

Actually it is because the government can amend the Civil Rights Act so that employers can pay higher wages to parents than single people. The government can also give tax incentives.

Quote

Many large families already don't pay income tax. What other taxes would you cut to target large families?

Well how about the Federal Reserve which inflates the money supply, destroying this country's prosperity? What about this global capitalist mindset which wants women workers so that "consumers" will get more fast food, toys, televisions, etc. not to mention businesses getting women labor. That needs to be stopped.