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Author Topic: Pacamama Idolatry  (Read 1612 times)

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Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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Pacamama Idolatry
« on: October 26, 2019, 05:52:00 PM »
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    • The faithful Catholic men, who stole the PAGAN IDOLS from the Church of Santa Maria Transpontina and threw them into the Tiber, should make a confession for violating the 8th Commandment....BUT, will Bergoglio (“Francis”) go to Confession, HIMSELF, and repent for his sin towards the FIRST Commandment? Most likely and most DEFINITELY NOT!!!  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #1 on: October 26, 2019, 06:23:36 PM »
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    • No confession necessary.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #2 on: October 26, 2019, 06:39:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam on October 26, 2019, 05:52:00 PM
    The faithful Catholic men, who stole the PAGAN IDOLS from the Church of Santa Maria Transpontina and threw them into the Tiber, should make a confession for violating the 8th Commandment....BUT, will Bergoglio (“Francis”) go to Confession, HIMSELF, and repent for his sin towards the FIRST Commandment? Most likely and most DEFINITELY NOT!!!  
    That would be like asking St. John the Theologian (St. John the Apostle) to make a heartfelt confession and repent of destroying some of the wonders of the ancient world when he fervently prayed to Christ our God that several of the Greek pagan temples and their pagan idols would be destroyed, and they were. These pagan temples, their idols, and their baths were known to be possessed by demons. Should they be allowed to stand? No.

    Because of those fervent apostolic prayers, strong earthquakes destroyed those temples, and many pagans came to the True Faith, repented, and accepted Holy Baptism.
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    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #3 on: October 26, 2019, 06:52:21 PM »
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    • Not only is he not repenting and confessing but

    As a dog that returneth to his vomit, so is the fool that repeateth his folly. 

    How on earth can you suggest that the act of removing filth can amount to stealing?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #4 on: October 26, 2019, 07:24:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 26, 2019, 06:23:36 PM
    No confession necessary.

    Nope.  St. Christina was martyred for smashing idols and throwing them out the Window.  Note:  she SMASHED them first before throwing them out, a step that the Pachamama gentlemen neglected.  But perhaps that was providential, since now God will allow Bergoglio to expose himself as contemptuous of the First Commandment.

    St. Christina:
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    According to accounts, one time Christina was visited by an angel, who instructed her in the true faith. The angel called her a bride of Christ and told her about her future suffering. Christina smashed all the idols in her room and threw them out the window. In visiting his daughter, Christina's father, Urbanus, asked her where all the idols had disappeared. Christina was silent.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 10:51:35 PM »
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    • I see a parallel in how Sahagun described devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and the confusioin of devotion to the Virgin Mary and the pagan symbol of "Mother Earth." YOu can still encounter this confusion in poorly catechized Latin Americans.
    I recommend more catechisms and a greater diligence in the catechesis.
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    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #6 on: October 27, 2019, 08:27:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam on October 26, 2019, 05:52:00 PM
    The faithful Catholic men, who stole the PAGAN IDOLS from the Church of Santa Maria Transpontina and threw them into the Tiber, should make a confession for violating the 8th Commandment.
    I think it is doubtful that the Catholic men violated the Divine law of stealing because it does not appear that the idols had any real value. However, removing or destroying idols can be a sin if it is done imprudently. 
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    "Nam, etsi ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecuм es. Virga tua, et baculus tuus, ipsa me consolata sunt." - Psalmi 22:4

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #7 on: October 27, 2019, 08:46:26 AM »
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    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #8 on: October 27, 2019, 12:27:23 PM »
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    • So, apparently, the idols have been fished out of the Tiber and put back in the Church with the apologies of our Holy Father...

    Some suggested that Catholics should go to Rome, to Santa Maria Transpontina (even the name of the Church is an omen) to participate in a massive group prayer, to atone for the presence of those idols and to pray to the only true God in front of these fake gods.

    I do not propose, directly or indirectly, explicitly or implicitly, or in any other way, manner, shape or form or with the implicit or explicit consent, knowledge or otherwise of this community or forum, that anyone should ever stand in front of the cameras while others remove the idols during this prayer and carry them to the incinerator. This would be illegal and I do not wish to incite or condone illegal behaviour.

    Catholics who understand my language, who are in Italy next week and who are willing to come to pray with us, are welcome to contact me in private. We are looking for a suitable date/time.
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    Tommaso
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 12:45:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: ascanio1 on October 27, 2019, 12:27:23 PM
    So, apparently, the idols have been fished out of the Tiber and put back in the Church with the apologies of our Holy Father...

    Some suggested that Catholics should go to Rome, to Santa Maria Transpontina (even the name of the Church is an omen) to participate in a massive group prayer, to atone for the presence of those idols and to pray to the only true God in front of these fake gods.

    I do not propose, directly or indirectly, explicitly or implicitly, or in any other way, manner, shape or form or with the implicit or explicit consent, knowledge or otherwise of this community or forum, that anyone should ever stand in front of the cameras while others remove the idols during this prayer and carry them to the incinerator. This would be illegal and I do not wish to incite or condone illegal behaviour.

    Catholics who understand my language, who are in Italy next week and who are willing to come to pray with us, are welcome to contact me in private. We are looking for a suitable date/time.

    Do what you need to do. Prayer is always a good thing, of course.

    If I were going to Italy in the near future (which I'm not), I would try to figure out how to remove that disgusting idol, with as little notice or fanfare as possible. At the very least one should protest, in some manner, the travesty of the situation.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 03:34:38 PM »
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    • That is a good initiative, Tommaso. I was thinking about the name of the church so I did a search and came up with the article below. Interesting to read the Highlights at the end. I wish we were coming to Rome!

    https://rome.hotelsandtouristattractions.com/santa-maria-traspontina-church-rome/
    Santa Maria in Traspontina Church Rome
    The Santa Maria in Traspontina Church is a Carmelite Church in the Via della Conciliazione at a short distance from Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome.
    Santa Maria in Traspontina Church Rome
    Address, opening hours and admission
    The address of the Chiesa di Santa Maria in Traspontina is Via della Conciliazione 34 – Rome (tel. +39 0668806451). Rione: Borgo. Opening hours:  From 06.30 till 12.00 and from 16.00 till 19.15 uur. Sundays from 07.30 till 13.00. Admission is free.
    History

    Santa Maria in Traspontina Church
    [font={defaultattr}]
    Thee Santa Maria in Traspontina Kerk is for an ancient bridge over the Tiber, which in 1560 was destroyed by order of Pope Pius IV. Trans pontem is Latin for “over the bridge”.
    The church was built between 1566 and 1637. The original architect  was Giovanni Sallustio Peruzzi (son of the much more famous Baldassare Peruzzi). Construction was competed by, first, Ottaviano Mascherino, and later, Francesco Paparelli.[/font]    [/color]

    There used to be covered footpath between the church, through a number of gardens, and Saint Peter’s Square. This path was destroyed when Mussolini had the Via della Conciliazione constructed.

    Before the church was built a Roman pyramid stood in the same spot. It was called Meta Romuli, because during the Middle Ages it was thought to be Romulus‘ tomb. The pyramid was destroyed in the year 1500, when the Jubilee took place. Pope Alexander VI Borgia reorganized the district and had a new street called Via Alexandrina built. This street is now called Borgo Nuovo.

    Description
    The Santa Maria in Trapontina Church is extremely low. Since the cannons of the Castel Sant’Angelo were pointed at the rione Borgo, their reach was not be obstructed by the church. When Mannarino designed the church he omitted the drum, so that there would not be any obstacles.

    A number of pillars divide the façade into five parts. There are smaller entrances, flanked by niches, on both sides of the main portal. The upper part of the facade has three windows, two of which are blind.

    The tympanum above the main door contains a statue of the “Madonna and Child”.
    The Campanile is only visible from the Vicolo del Campanile.

    The floor plan is that of a Latin cross. There are five chapels on each side.

    Highlights
    The main altar was designed by Carlo Fontana. Its main attribute is an “Icon of the Virgin”, brought from the Holy Land to Rome in 1216 by the Carmelite Order.

    The Santa Barbara Chapel has a number of military decorations, Santa Barbara herself being the patron saint of the artillery.

    The third chapel on the right allegedly contains the two columns the Saints Peter and Paul were tied to before being tortured.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 04:37:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: DLaurentius on October 27, 2019, 08:27:17 AM
    I think it is doubtful that the Catholic men violated the Divine law of stealing because it does not appear that the idols had any real value. However, removing or destroying idols can be a sin if it is done imprudently.
    Stealing is not dependent on the value of the item. Obviously they have "real value" for idolators. The point is that idols do not belong in a Catholic church, so getting them out of a Catholc church is not stealing, but cleaning.

    But what do you mean by "removing or destroying idols can be a sin if it is done imprudently"? Can you explain by giving examples.
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    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 07:12:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on October 27, 2019, 04:37:19 PM
    But what do you mean by "removing or destroying idols can be a sin if it is done imprudently"? Can you explain by giving examples.
    I highly doubt anyone on Cathinfo is going to go down to their local Hindu temple and start smashing the idols. If they did, they would likely face many years in prison for committing a "hate crime". It is also highly unlikely that any Hindus would convert to the Catholic Faith as a result of their action. This is an obvious example of imprudently destroying idols. 
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 08:11:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: DLaurentius on October 27, 2019, 07:12:52 PM
    I highly doubt anyone on Cathinfo is going to go down to their local Hindu temple and start smashing the idols. If they did, they would likely face many years in prison for committing a "hate crime". It is also highly unlikely that any Hindus would convert to the Catholic Faith as a result of their action. This is an obvious example of imprudently destroying idols.
    Do you mean like St. Nicholas and St. Boniface? Very imprudent fellows
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    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Pacamama Idolatry
    « Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 09:01:20 PM »
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    • It was not against the law taking those idols out of there. God's law always supercedes man's law. Yes you may incur temporal penalties, but there is no doubt that it was the right move ( except they should have sledgehammered them before throwing them in the river)
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