Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Overly pious people  (Read 2463 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bernadette

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 430
  • Reputation: +592/-144
  • Gender: Female
Overly pious people
« on: April 08, 2012, 07:10:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have a problem with overly pious people...there are those that somehow it seems sincere, and others it seems affected...now, don't get me wrong...I think piety is wonderful, but somehow, it bothers me when Catholics write about their "difficulties" with prayer, concentration, and other religious efforts...It really rubs me the wrong way, especially if it is someone I know who suddenly turned pious.  Speaking in a real pious manner bothers me too...I guess you could say I don't like it when people strike a pious pose...anyone else feel this way?  I wish I could say I didn't.


    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 07:24:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: bernadette
    I have a problem with overly pious people...there are those that somehow it seems sincere, and others it seems affected...now, don't get me wrong...I think piety is wonderful, but somehow, it bothers me when Catholics write about their "difficulties" with prayer, concentration, and other religious efforts...It really rubs me the wrong way, especially if it is someone I know who suddenly turned pious.  Speaking in a real pious manner bothers me too...I guess you could say I don't like it when people strike a pious pose...anyone else feel this way?  I wish I could say I didn't.


    People who become enthusiastically devout should be encouraged, not discouraged.

    If it's an attention seeking phase, they will quit soon enough.  I would pray for them that it is genuine, not just a fit of enthusiasm.


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31196
    • Reputation: +27113/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 07:26:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know -- it might be a problem with you.

    Unless you know for certain they are being a hypocrite, a person suddenly improving in piety (for example) shouldn't be rubbing you the wrong way.

    Charity dictates we should think the best of others, especially when they don't give you a reason to do otherwise.

    You should look into the nature of "envy", particularly the part where you are saddened at another's good fortune.

    Our priest just gave a sermon on envy a few months ago. He mentioned how it's the vice of the devil, who envies humans who still have a chance at everlasting bliss.

    Envy is worse than fornication in some ways, since it gives a person no pleasure. It's a sin of pure malice. A weak human being can fall by his passions into gluttony or immorality, but those vices at least give the sinner a momentary satisfaction. (Still no bargain when you compare it to an eternity of misery)

    But sadness at another's good gives one *no* satisfaction, however instantaneous.

    P.S. -- you asked, so this is my answer. Don't take any of this personally. This is advice for *anyone* who would ask a question like the one you posted.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31196
    • Reputation: +27113/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #3 on: April 08, 2012, 07:28:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Also, "pious talk" might be a reminder to you of how you feel you are deficient.

    So their piety acts as so many red-hot needles, pricking your conscience, reminding you of things you should do, resolutions you should take, etc. and so in general it annoys you.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline bernadette

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 430
    • Reputation: +592/-144
    • Gender: Female
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 07:55:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    I don't know -- it might be a problem with you.

    Unless you know for certain they are being a hypocrite, a person suddenly improving in piety (for example) shouldn't be rubbing you the wrong way.

    Charity dictates we should think the best of others, especially when they don't give you a reason to do otherwise.

    You should look into the nature of "envy", particularly the part where you are saddened at another's good fortune.

    Our priest just gave a sermon on envy a few months ago. He mentioned how it's the vice of the devil, who envies humans who still have a chance at everlasting bliss.

    Envy is worse than fornication in some ways, since it gives a person no pleasure. It's a sin of pure malice. A weak human being can fall by his passions into gluttony or immorality, but those vices at least give the sinner a momentary satisfaction. (Still no bargain when you compare it to an eternity of misery)

    But sadness at another's good gives one *no* satisfaction, however instantaneous.

    P.S. -- you asked, so this is my answer. Don't take any of this personally. This is advice for *anyone* who would ask a question like the one you posted.


    I don't feel bad about what you have said...in fact, I'll think on it...in all honesty...it is a very close relation to me that has prompted me to ask this question, and it is what is bothering me.  I don't have a problem with people I really don't know.  So, to clear the board...I am really referring to a relation....sad, I know.


    Offline Thorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1188
    • Reputation: +710/-81
    • Gender: Female
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #5 on: April 08, 2012, 08:13:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I agree with Matthew but can somewhat understand Bernadette.  I know someone who most people would classify as 'overly pious'.  She knows her faith & tries to live it all the way and can be very critical of anyone who doesn't see things her way.

    I gave her a ride once & as soon as she got in the car, she said, "Let's say the rosary."  Now I do not like saying the rosary while driving for a couple of reasons.  First, I need to be constantly watching not only in front of us, but behind & on both sides when we're on the freeway.  I also am watching the controls.  Next, when I drive if I'm not on the freeway I want to enjoy the view on both sides.  Saying the rosary takes concentration too & it's nerve-wracking to me to pray the rosary & drive.  I felt she was out of place. I resented her jamming her 'piety' down my throat in my car, in my space.  Later I had the radio on softly & she asked me to turn it OFF!!  And no, it wasn't obnoxious music, but mostly news & freeway reports.  So if Bernadette is referring to these kinds of people, then I too am irritated by them.  
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline bernadette

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 430
    • Reputation: +592/-144
    • Gender: Female
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #6 on: April 08, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Thorn
    I agree with Matthew but can somewhat understand Bernadette.  I know someone who most people would classify as 'overly pious'.  She knows her faith & tries to live it all the way and can be very critical of anyone who doesn't see things her way.

    I gave her a ride once & as soon as she got in the car, she said, "Let's say the rosary."  Now I do not like saying the rosary while driving for a couple of reasons.  First, I need to be constantly watching not only in front of us, but behind & on both sides when we're on the freeway.  I also am watching the controls.  Next, when I drive if I'm not on the freeway I want to enjoy the view on both sides.  Saying the rosary takes concentration too & it's nerve-wracking to me to pray the rosary & drive.  I felt she was out of place. I resented her jamming her 'piety' down my throat in my car, in my space.  Later I had the radio on softly & she asked me to turn it OFF!!  And no, it wasn't obnoxious music, but mostly news & freeway reports.  So if Bernadette is referring to these kinds of people, then I too am irritated by them.  


    Oh good...I'm not alone.  Yes, that would bother me too...

    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 10:48:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We all have some degree of sincerity and some degree of showing-off.  But as Matthew says, there is no reason to assume that someone is just showing off.

    I do sometimes feel that unconscious irritation, while knowing it is my problem and not anyone else's.  A lot of people quote random things from Catholic books on Facebook.  Since if I did this, it would come off as affected, it makes me thinks others are a bit affected when they do it; but that is not the case.  God gives certain people different things to say, and a different time to say it.  Certain saints kept silent for long periods and then began preaching all over the place later.  

    I personally don't understand why someone would choose one paragraph instead of another to post on Facebook, almost randomly, where it is deprived of any context.  To me I get very little spiritual nourishment out of it, because I'm more of a big-picture thinker, I have a conceptual mind.  But can I say that they are fishing for a "like"?  No, they have their reason for what they're doing and it may be a good one.  Maybe God gave them an inspiration to choose a certain quote, knowing someone will see it who needs to see it on that day.

    So many times there have been things that rubbed me the wrong way, even behaviors of the saints.  I had to force myself to see it closer to God's way, instead of mine, to appreciate the differences between His children.  Human arrogance is such that we tend to want everyone to be like us, like seeks like, but God didn't plan it that way.  Two saints I had problems with are St. Therese and St. Francis.  With St. Therese, for a while I was uninspired by her "little flower" image, thinking it was sentimental, while our time demands soldiers and scholars, etc.  But I was totally wrong, now I see why she is a saint.  So it always pays to be patient and not leap to judgment.

    St. Francis is another example.  St. Francis really speaks almost like a baby when it comes to God and His creation.  "O brother sun, sister moon" and things like that.  My natural instinct hearing things like this is to cringe.  Imagine you are in a room alone with someone, and then he looks up to the sky with milky eyes, saying "O sister moon, how I love thee!"  You would start squirming and be like "Okay, dude, chill out."

    We are so denatured that we can't understand someone who has reached this level of total innocence.  That is because we are all affected with human respect.  St. Francis had conquered human respect to a degree that is almost impossible to believe.  He is basically the paragon of humility, opening himself up for mockery constantly.  

    I spent the first thirty-two years of my life trying to be as cool as possible, and St. Francis is severely uncool -- the epitome of uncool.  His sincerity is so incredibly profound that to children of today's ironic age, it's hard for us to believe he really was like that.  But that is the way we are supposed to be, innocent, full of wonder of God, like children.  My "coolness" is of the devil, it is a mocking, worldly spirit.  St. Francis is simply spiritually light-years beyond me, which I have to recognize.  I can only pray that one day I will have a fraction of that sincerity and simplicity.

    So in many cases, as Matthew points out, our irritation is our problem; it is our worldliness, our human respect, our desire to make everyone like us, to not see when they are superior to us, because we think we're it, that we know the score better than they do.  We don't want to see that they may be far more advanced spiritually than we are.

    There is a reason Christ constantly emphasizes humility, if you are self-satisfied, you will never unlock the riches of the faith, because you can't learn, you will just be stuck in your rut.  Take the last seat at the table, assume others are better than you, and you will quickly have entire new vistas opened to you, will see things in a whole new way.  If someone does something that seems odd, there may be a reason, or a lesson.

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 11:15:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • With myself, I mainly admire pious people, however in my circle of Traditional Catholics there are a few people who are pious, but also critical of other people who have not yet reached that state.  When I come upon someone like that I begin to doubt their piousness.  In fact I had to speak about this the last time I went to Confession.  Doubting others piousness, because of the critical words that I hear from them about others who do not measure up to their standards.  

    I get upset with myself for thinking ill of anyone, so then I walk around all day feeling like my soul is deformed.  

    On the other hand, I see people soo pious that I feel I am looking at a living saint.  Truly!
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline bernadette

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 430
    • Reputation: +592/-144
    • Gender: Female
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 01:05:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pious people, and those who project themselves as pious can be critical of others, that's true...I prefer the idea of pious people who from all outward appearances seem like anyone else, and perhaps their piety need not be recognized by anyone but God, of course, religious are separate from laity in this...one expects piety in a religious.

    Offline Malleus 01

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 484
    • Reputation: +447/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 01:27:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: bernadette
    I have a problem with overly pious people...there are those that somehow it seems sincere, and others it seems affected...now, don't get me wrong...I think piety is wonderful, but somehow, it bothers me when Catholics write about their "difficulties" with prayer, concentration, and other religious efforts...It really rubs me the wrong way, especially if it is someone I know who suddenly turned pious.  Speaking in a real pious manner bothers me too...I guess you could say I don't like it when people strike a pious pose...anyone else feel this way?  I wish I could say I didn't.


    In reading the stories of the Saints - we often find that they are just people like you and I - that one day they simply decided to completely conform their will to the will of GOD.

    Now the followers of Jesus Christ cannot be hidden - as they are the light of the world. But likewise - when they pray they are to do so in order to develope a deep relationship with God the Father Our Lord and the Holy Ghost , the Blessed Virgin - All the Angels and Saints - and GOD and the individual knows how effective those prayers are.  They need not be on public display to be effective. In fact , Our Lord warns us not to make public displays if that is all the prayer is.   So it is indeed a balancing act and one that most Catholics are aware of.

    So - perhaps in Charity - we can all be a little more tolerant of our fellow sinners knowing that but for the Grace of GOD go I.  Knowing that  anyone can fall but also that anyone can succeed if they but love GOD and their neighbor as themselves and act accordingly - perhaps the question remains with each of us individually in our own relationship with GOD and neighbor.

    The Saints often times - the more Holy they became through piety - the more aware they became of their shortcomings before GOD.   I think if we all look hard enough for flaws in the Human Creature - that we can all find some no matter who the person is. That being said - should our efforts therefore be turned to others or to ourselves since GOD ultimately will decide who is or isnt Holy.

    Pax



    Offline John Grace

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5521
    • Reputation: +121/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Overly pious people
    « Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 02:11:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is a great thread and topic. Thanks for posting.