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Author Topic: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification  (Read 4387 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2019, 05:24:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: dymphnaw on April 05, 2019, 08:52:51 PM
    This is tiresome and I'm beginning to think it might be best to leave this apparition alone lest someone bite my head off when refer to it the "wrong" way.

    Catholics are going to refer to the statue by any name they feel they like the best.

    But Our Lady was quite specific in the name she wanted to use. Evidently, that doesn't matter at all to most here.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #31 on: April 06, 2019, 10:45:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 06, 2019, 05:24:27 AM
    Catholics are going to refer to the statue by any name they feel they like the best.

    But Our Lady was quite specific in the name she wanted to use. Evidently, that doesn't matter at all to most here.
    Our Lady didn't do the translation.  The nuns in Ecuador did.  That's the problem.  Our Lady did not say "I want Spanish speakers to call me Maria del Buen Suceso de la Purificacion, and I want English speakers to call me Our Lady of Buen Suceso of the Purification."  Our Lady didn't say that.  And she didn't say to call her Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification either.  You are asking us to take English language lessons from Spanish speaking nuns.  That's the problem.  When people try to have a discussion about it, they get attacked for backing up TIA or Marian Horvat, despite those names not even being mentioned in our arguments.  The funny thing is that before I read this post, I was asking Nuestra Senora del Buen Suceso de la Purificacion to pray for us.  The antics of the Suceso crowd have convinced me to do otherwise.  Congratulations.

    To recap, 'suceso' in Spanish means 1. Thing that happens, especially when of some importance. 2. Success, resultant, completion of an agreement.
    'Success' in English can also be used to describe an event.  Attached is an example from the 1768 Dictionary of the English Language.  We are translating an old text, so I think this is pertinent to the subject.  Success: 1. The termination of any affair happy or unhappy. Milton. 2. Succession. Spenjer.

    So given that 'suceso' and 'success' can both mean the same thing in different circuмstances, and that Our Lady never indicated how she wanted to be known by the English speaking world, why would 'success' be unacceptable here, if the speaker understands the sense of the word being used?  That is: a thing that happened, of some importance.

    Additionally, when you enter into google translate "Maria del Buen Suceso de la Purificacion", it comes out "Mary of the Good Success of the Purification".  When you type in "Maria del Buen Suceso", it gives you "Maria of Good Success".  And finally, when you type in "Nuestra Señora del Buen Suceso", you get "Our Lady of Good Success".


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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #32 on: April 06, 2019, 11:52:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: SoldierOfChrist on April 06, 2019, 10:45:36 AM
    So given that 'suceso' and 'success' can both mean the same thing in different circuмstances, and that Our Lady never indicated how she wanted to be known by the English speaking world, why would 'success' be unacceptable here, if the speaker understands the sense of the word being used?  That is: a thing that happened, of some importance.

    Perhaps you can explain how "success" ties in with the Purification of our Lady. What would "success" mean in relation to the Purification?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #33 on: April 06, 2019, 12:14:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 06, 2019, 11:52:14 AM
    Perhaps you can explain how "success" ties in with the Purification of our Lady. What would "success" mean in relation to the Purification?
    In the same sense as in the Spanish.  I attached the old definition of "Success" to show that the word was once used the same way in English as it is in Spanish.  That is 'the termination of any affair happy or unhappy'.  So it would be the completed event of the Purification, the having happened and completed.  The point is that the word "success" already contains that meaning, so it doesn't need to be changed.  'Event' does not actually cover it, because it doesn't have to have been completed or terminated.  So to use event, actually changes the meaning of the word.  You'd have to specify "the completed event" in order to get to the same meaning as is in the Spanish word "suceso".  The old definition of the English word "success", contained that exact meaning.  I would look it up in OED, but I don't feel like purchasing a subscription just to make an argument, but I would be that the OED still has that 'completed event' meaning as one of the definitions for "success".  Older dictionaries certainly do.  And that would be how it related to the Purification.  The Purification of Our Lady happened and it was completed.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #34 on: April 06, 2019, 12:33:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: SoldierOfChrist on April 06, 2019, 12:14:24 PM
    In the same sense as in the Spanish.  I attached the old definition of "Success" to show that the word was once used the same way in English as it is in Spanish.  That is 'the termination of any affair happy or unhappy'.  So it would be the completed event of the Purification, the having happened and completed.  The point is that the word "success" already contains that meaning, so it doesn't need to be changed.  'Event' does not actually cover it, because it doesn't have to have been completed or terminated.  So to use event, actually changes the meaning of the word.  You'd have to specify "the completed event" in order to get to the same meaning as is in the Spanish word "suceso".  The old definition of the English word "success", contained that exact meaning.  I would look it up in OED, but I don't feel like purchasing a subscription just to make an argument, but I would be that the OED still has that 'completed event' meaning as one of the definitions for "success".  Older dictionaries certainly do.  And that would be how it related to the Purification.  The Purification of Our Lady happened and it was completed.

    Okay....I think I understand what you are saying. But I don't understand why Our Lady would make an issue of the supposed successful completion of an event such as the Purification. So we are back at square one. Why would our Lady want to attach "successful completion" to an event that we know took place? Why would she want to emphasize a "successful completion?" That doesn't make logical sense to me.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #35 on: April 06, 2019, 01:29:57 PM »
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    • As the New Yorker, Father Purdy said, his view of "success" means winning the Lotto.

    Since the SSPX dropped the vow of poverty for their holy religious , it means he could then buy a nice new pickup truck.



    For his Philippino fans, it may mean winning the US Green Card lottery?

    For Catholics introduced to the Devotion of Our Lady of Good Success by Dr. Marian and Atila, it means confidence that Our Lady will intercede to bring success to our earnest & prayerful intentions if they are deserving in the Eyes of God.

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline poche

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #36 on: April 06, 2019, 11:47:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 06, 2019, 11:52:14 AM
    Perhaps you can explain how "success" ties in with the Purification of our Lady. What would "success" mean in relation to the Purification?
    Success lies in the purification of Our Lady because her there is no success without Jesus and all of her mysteries are ordered to the coming and Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ. 
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #37 on: April 07, 2019, 08:07:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on April 06, 2019, 11:47:26 PM
    Success lies in the purification of Our Lady because her there is no success without Jesus and all of her mysteries are ordered to the coming and Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    At least you tie in the Purification with your assessment above. That's more than those who only call Her "Our Lady of Good Success" do.

    Our Lady said to Mother Mariana:

    "He (the bishop) shall consecrate my statue with holy oil and give it the name 'Maria del Buen Suceso de la Purification.' […] It is under this invocation that I desire to be known throughout time for the preservation of my convent and its inhabitants."

    Here's part two of Fr. Purdy's conference talk, where he explains the history and sacrifice of the Purification of Our Lady. I haven't watched it yet, but will do so after I get back from Mass today.

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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #38 on: April 07, 2019, 11:00:08 AM »
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    • This forum is so loaded with SSPX trolls  :facepalm:
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #39 on: April 07, 2019, 12:08:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on April 07, 2019, 11:00:08 AM
    This forum is so loaded with SSPX trolls  :facepalm:

    You believe that I'm an SSPX troll because I see merit in the talks of Fr. Purdy?

    It's true that I do not believe that all SSPX are bad, as you evidently do. I don't think that the four Resistance bishops think that all of the SSPX priests are bad. IMO, they understand the virtue of charity and hope. They are quite different from Plinio de Oliveira in this regard.

    So far, in the videos of Fr. Purdy here, I haven't seen that he has complained about the problems with the TIA/disciples of Plineo. Perhaps he is more concerned about other things than criticizing the TIA/disciples of Plinio. I cannot speak for him, and maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps he doesn't see everyone who disagrees with his views as an enemy.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #40 on: April 07, 2019, 12:59:10 PM »
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    • I can see how Success in English would have the improper connotation.

    Success could mean more something like a fortuitous event, but the common connotation does involve visions of people winning the lottery or getting rich.

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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #41 on: April 07, 2019, 01:03:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on April 01, 2019, 11:58:05 PM
    :jester: Woman... speakest thou not!

    Perhaps Our Lady should heed these words also?  I mean, perhaps she shouldn't be going around in apparitions instructing men.   :facepalm:
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #42 on: April 07, 2019, 05:04:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on April 07, 2019, 11:00:08 AM
    This forum is so loaded with SSPX trolls  :facepalm:
    No, just two women who think they "cracked the code". Just let this thread die Dr. Incredulous, changing the English speaking world title from of Our Lady of Good Success to the Spanglish Our Lady of Buen Suceso of the Purification, just is not going to happen. It was Marian Horvath's books that made that obscure apparition what little it has become today, and it is her books that continue to spread the news of the message of Sr. Mariana de Jesus. They are not going to get the books removed from the public, three cats from the Philippines aren't going to change anything, just disturb a lot of people.
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    Offline Markus

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #43 on: April 07, 2019, 07:43:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on April 03, 2019, 01:21:20 PM
    The problem is the the PRIDE of TFP and their sister organization TIA was wounded when TFP laymen were replaced by Catholic priests to be in charge of the chapel. Anti-clericalism and an elevation of the importance of the laity are at the core of both TFP and TIA. TIA has repeatedly attacked Traditional Catholic priests, a Bishops, a Cardinal and a Saint.
    Another point to make, also not a quibble, but a serious thing to consider. TIA is not a sister organization to TFP. There are no formal agreements between the two, and in fact, there are several disagreements. The implication of your post is that TIA and TFP are in cahoots to monopolise this devotion, or something. That is not the case.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Our Lady of the Good Event of the Purification
    « Reply #44 on: April 07, 2019, 08:06:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Markus on April 07, 2019, 07:43:00 PM
    Another point to make, also not a quibble, but a serious thing to consider. TIA is not a sister organization to TFP. There are no formal agreements between the two, and in fact, there are several disagreements. The implication of your post is that TIA and TFP are in cahoots to monopolise this devotion, or something. That is not the case.

    Cera has some neurotic mental imbalance when it comes to the TFP.  She clearly has some grudge against them but refuses to come clean about what this is.  She sees a TFP member behind every bush.
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