Author Topic: Our Lady of Fatima and John 14:6? (Read 1272 times)

gobosox91 · « **on:** April 18, 2012, 08:46:41 PM »

I am the Way, the Light, and the Truth. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"My immaculate heart will be your refuge and lead you to God."

How do they not contradict each other? As well as justifying prayers to saints?

Clelia · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:49:35 PM »

Well...

Jesus IS The Way, The Truth, and The Life: speaks for Himself because He IS God.

Mary is God's Immaculate Mother, is she not?

Makes sense to me. God Bless!

Prayers to Saints:
Don't you have friends that recommend you to potential employers or introduce you to other important people?

It's having 'friends' in High places!! :wink:

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:49:36 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

I am the Way, the Light, and the Truth. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"My immaculate heart will be your refuge and lead you to God."

How do they not contradict each other?

How do they contradict each other? How does the intercession of Mary with her Son contradict the words of Christ that He is the Way, the Light, and the Truth? The only way?

There's no contradiction.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:54:52 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

I am the Way, the Light, and the Truth. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"My immaculate heart will be your refuge and lead you to God."

How do they not contradict each other? As well as justifying prayers to saints?

You're spending too much time listening to the lies of the Protestants. So much so that you've now developed a fear that Catholicism is idolatry.

Here's the thing. Catholics don't worship Mary. We honor her and love her, but do not worship her. When we pray to her and other Saints, we are asking them to pray to God for us, via intercession. We don't pray to them because we think they are gods.

s2srea · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:15:16 PM »

gobosox91- I'm afraid you will give an impression that you are not here for sincere reasons if all you do is post new challenges to Catholicism, and don't interact with what's being said.

You might want to try engaging others here, and discuss the circuмstance of your concerns perhaps.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:01:54 PM »

Just as Jesus came to us through Mary, we go to Jesus through Mary.

Protestants don't honor Mary, which is why Protestants do not have the Blessed Sacrament, Jesus Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Protestants, at best only have a symbol. Why; because they depend on themselves to find Jesus, and they can't find Him. Catholics depend on Our Lady to take us to her Son.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:18:47 PM »

Quote

gobosox91- I'm afraid you will give an impression that you are not here for sincere reasons if all you do is post new challenges to Catholicism, and don't interact with what's being said.

I'm noticing the same thing, s2.

A musty old troll is loose on the forum. Doesn't seem to want to do anything but highlight Bible passages like a Protestant.

If not, Mr. Redsock, feel free to explain yourself.

gobosox91 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2012, 07:39:51 AM »

I'm not a troll, I'm a kid with OCD who wants to settle things that bother me.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2012, 08:32:57 AM »

Quote from: gobosox91

I am the Way, the Light, and the Truth. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"My immaculate heart will be your refuge and lead you to God."

How do they not contradict each other? As well as justifying prayers to saints?

My husband: "I am the head of this family and I earn the paycheck. No one eats, sleeps, or has their needs met without me."

Me to my children: "I am you mother, the spouse of the head of this family. My arms and my heart will comfort you. I can lead you to source of all your needs. If you come to me, I will show you how to get what you seek."

How do these two statements contradict each other? They do not. And while this dialogue is quite banal and simplistic, I think it speaks volumes to the relationship that Our Blessed Mother shares with Our Lord.

Our Blessed Mother is unique. She is not just the Mother of Our Lord, She is also the Spouse of the Holy Ghost.

Go ahead and envelope yourself in these Protestant lies under the pretext that "real" Christians rely solely on the Lord Jesus Christ. You will shortchange yourself and ultimately will only draw yourself further and further away from God.

Protestants, while professing the Blessed Trinity, do not understand it, theologically nor personally. It is the way the devil lies to them to draw them away from Truth.

They also do not understand death and resurrection. How could they? This is why most Protestants are easily led into and influenced by Prosperity Theology. And it is why so many of their poor souls are lost.

If you want a fuller discussion of Our Most Blessed Mother, Heaven, the Communion of Saints, and a clearer definition of the Church, I am sure most people would be glad to participate in that.

I suggest you read up on the Church---specifically the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant. I also suggest you read up on prayer, what it means and why we do it.

Alex · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2012, 10:12:54 AM »

A Protestant has no problem with asking a person to pray for them. If we can pray for each other, why can't we ask Mary and the saints to likewise pray for us? Their prayers are even more powerful with God than our prayers for each other because they are more favorable with God since they are holy - especially Mary who is the closest of all creatures to God.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2012, 10:17:10 AM »

Quote from: Alex

Protestants have no problem with asking a person to pray for them. If we can pray for each other, why can't we ask Mary and the saints to likewise pray for us? Their prayers are even more powerful with God than our prayers for each other because they are more favorable with God since they are holy - especially Mary who is the closest of all creatures to God.

Exactly. :applause:

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2012, 01:33:25 PM »

Two plus two will equal five or three before there can be any contradiction between what Our Lord declared, saying, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by Me" (St. John, ch. xiv. 6), and what His Blessed Mother said at Fatima.

For what reason is there that can explain why St. Luke recorded the visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary to her aged kinswoman, St. Elizabeth, if not to commemorate how the Incarnate Son of the Eternal Father decreed and inaugurated her office as Mediatress of the graces in the sanctification of souls? For it was thus, and in such a manner only, that Our Lord chose to sanctify and consecrate the unborn St. John as His Precursor. And in this mystery do we find revealed the inestimable and ineffable works of grace that Our Lord deigned to operate in Mary, with Mary, and through Mary.

As Rev. Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Langrange, O.P., writes regarding this mystery of the Visitation, “Mary, who was to give birth to the Savior, brought grace to Elizabeth and to the unborn precursor. Mary herself had been redeemed in an absolutely exceptional manner by the future merits of her Son and she concurred in the redemption of us all. From the moment of her immaculate conception she had been redeemed by a sovereign redemption, being preserved from original sin instead of being healed of it. It was fitting that a perfect Redeemer should accomplish a sovereign and preservative redemption in at least one soul, and in that soul more closely associated with Him than any other in the work of man’s salvation. Truly, what Jesus merited for us in justice, Mary has merited for us with Him and in Him and by Him through the merit of congruity. In this sense it has pleased our Lord that no one should be saved except in consideration of the merits of His Mother. In the same sense it has pleased Him to sanctify the precursor by Mary’s words” (The Love of God and the Cross of Jesus, “The Mysteries of the Rosary”).

Before the great Dominican theologian, St. Alphonsus in his celebrated work, The Glories of Mary, wrote, “And now, if all these first-fruits of Redemption passed through Mary as the channel through which grace was communicated to the Baptist, the Holy Ghost to Elizabeth, the gift of prophecy to Zachary and so many other blessings to the whole house, the first graces that to our knowledge the Eternal Word had granted on earth after the Incarnation, it is quite correct to believe that thenceforward God made Mary the universal channel, as she is called by St. Bernard, through which all the other graces that our Lord is pleased to dispense to us should pass” (Part II, discourse V).

Again, for what other reason is there that can explain why St. Luke recorded the presence of Mary Most Holy at Pentecost amongst the Apostles than the fact that Our Lord chose to associate His Blessed Mother in the work of the edification of the His Church?

The Apostles were united in prayer with the Blessed Virgin Mary, and she (so to speak) drew down upon them from her Divine Son the Lord Holy Ghost in the plenitude of all His gifts and graces. This was why she was there with them. She is the Immaculate Conception, she was already the ineffable tabernacle and most pure Spouse of the Holy Ghost. Just as the Blessed Virgin went to St. Elizabeth, that she and the Precursor St. John the Baptist would obtain the grace of the Holy Ghost and the glad tidings of the Incarnation of the Eternal Word, so Mary Most Holy accompanied the Apostles for the same purpose, for she was constituted as supreme Arbitress and Mediatress of the graces won by the Passion of Our Lord, according to the command given her at the foot of the Cross, “Woman, behold thy son” (St. John xix. 26). This was the fulfillment of the ancient oracle of the Old Testament, wherein it is said to Most Holy Mary, “Inhabit in Jacob, and inherit in Israel, and take root in Mine elect” (Ecclus. xxiv. 13).

The message of Our Lady of the Rosary at Fatima is nothing more the celestially inspired epitome of the teaching of the Gospels, the Sacred Scriptures, the tradition of the Apostles and Fathers, the doctrines of the Councils and Roman Pontiffs of Holy Mother Church, being a practical summa of the teachings of St. Alphonsus and St. Louis-Marie regarding the indispensable role of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the economy of salvation. Fatima is but a grand echo of those immortal words that Mary Most Holy spoke (the only public pronouncement of hers recorded by the Evangelists): "Whatsoever He (that is, Our Lord Jesus) shall say to you, do ye" (St. John ch. ii., 5).

How greatly to be praised is the ineffable and unfathomable loving-kindness and charity wherewith the Lord God Almighty predestined the Blessed Mary to be the ever-Virgin Mother of the Word Incarnate, and consequentially elected her to a plenitude of glory and grace superior to that of all other created or creatable persons, whether Angelic or human: so as to make us cry forth in rapt adoration with St. Paul, "O depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God: how incomprehensible are His judgments, and His ways unsearchable!" (Rom. xi. 33).

Whensoever we have recourse to Our Lady, she in turn leads us to Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten of the Eternal Father and the only Son her perpetual and integral virginity. Just as St. Elizabeth praised her faith, and the Blessed Virgin in turn began intoning her beautiful Canticle Magnificat, so whensoever we praise Mary, we are rendering a more excellent praise to Him Who chose her to be His Mother.

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2012, 03:14:05 PM »

Quote from: gobosox91

I am the Way, the Light, and the Truth. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

"My immaculate heart will be your refuge and lead you to God."

How do they not contradict each other? As well as justifying prayers to saints?

Think of Marian Devotion this way.

First Jesus is the Son of GOD - IE GOD. Jesus will judge the Living and the Dead.

No created Human Being is Above GOD.

Now - with THAT in mind - think of the Blessed Virgin Mary this way.

Of all the Human Beings - The Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived without Original Sin. BY GOD

Jesus , the Son of GOD was born of her and he was Subject to her in his formative years. BY GOD's Choice.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was prophesied for thousands of Years - See Judith in Scripture - See Isaiah . Etc Etc. The Words of GOD

The Blessed Virgin Mary perfectly conforms her will to the Will of GOD - hense it is in this action that The Blessed Virgin Mary honors Jesus most perfectly.

In Luke 1 : 41 and 42 GOD the Holy Ghost speaks through St Elizabeth not merely yo Honor Our Lord Jesus Christ but to proclaim the Blessed Virgin as the Model for Created Humans.

Marian Devotion doesnt compete with GOD - The Father the Son or The holy Ghost for Honor and Devotion - Marian Devotion is the Model for Created Humans to emulate - a complete Surrender of the Human Will to the Will of GOD in Humility - thus serving GOD in a perfect manner. Marian devotion isnt about honoring Mary - its about emulating her example in her complete surrender to the Will of GOD.

Marian Devotion and Devotion to the Saints isnt about praying TO a Saint as if that Saint were GOD for that would be idolitry - but rather to Pray that the Saint Petition GOD on our behalf based on the Merits of the Saint before GOD rather than Our own feeble merit as we live on this earth. Obviously a Saint already in Heaven must have pleased GOD ot they wouldnt be there. And to those who say "Dead" Saints cannot hear prayers - I say Read Matthew Chapter 18 Vs 10

Pax