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Author Topic: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres  (Read 1963 times)

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Offline Cera

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Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 04:31:43 PM »
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  • Fr. Purdy admits in the videos that he doesn't know Spanish and that he's not a scholar.
    What you say is not truthful and contradicts Father Purdy's statements in the first video posted. He speaks and translates Spanish. He translated several of the original Spanish handwritten copies (unlike Marion Horvat, who did not translate from the Spanish, but a Portugese copy of a Spanish copy).
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 04:40:42 PM »
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  • Our Lady has a history of migrating. She came across the sea from Spain as Our Lady of Guadalupe (Extremadura) and Our Lady of Good Success (Madrid), and Columbus discovered the Americas on the feast day of Our Lady of the Pillar (first ever apparition). If we were overly concerned about translating directly whatever Juan Diego might have heard in Nahuatl, instead of the obvious phonetic solution, things would be far different. The thing is... what is the significance of translating all of this into English?

    When the treaty was signed to end the Mexican-American War, it was signed in front of the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe on the Feast of the Purification/Presentation/Our Lady of Good Success. Only 9 days before, the first nuggets of gold were discovered in California. Over the course of a few decades, most of the Californian mission properties that had been taken from the Church by the land secularization act in the 1820s was returned to her. The US has been the most fertile places for traditional Catholicism right up there with France and pre-revolutionary France was instrumental in our country's bid for independence. Lafayette did his best to try to protect King Louis when everything blew up over there.

    Maybe there is a Marian manifest destiny for this country and we haven't just seen what we were really made to be yet. If Fr. Purdy and Ms. Liboro could let Our Lady out of the restrictive langage box they've designed for her, they might see a bigger picture. I'm not as concerned with their understanding of Spanish as I am with the restrictive way they are treating  "success" in English. It isn't necessarily a vulgar or worldly thing to have, it's just that most worldly people have a far different idea of what success means for them. Success for traditional Catholics ought to mean no less than victory for the Church, the Faith, and in the cultivation of all virtues. The key here is spiritual success, and we need it now more than ever.
    Thank you for taking a few steps back and looking at the big historical picture in context. In one of the videos, Father Purdy says Santa Maria de la Buen Suceso de la Purifacion may be translated as Santa Maria of the Good EFFECT of the Purification.
    The good effect, he suggests, came about on the 40th day following the Birth of Jesus, known as Candlemas, Feast of the Purification and the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple.
    Our Lady did not give birth in the manner of a fallen human being, was not contaminated by blood and in an earthly sense, did not need to be purified according to Jewish law. Father Purdy suggests that when St Simeon told Our Lady "a sword will pierce your heart" this was the genesis of her Immaculate Heart. God used her perfect humility and perfect ascent to His will to purify her in this unique way.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #17 on: June 12, 2019, 06:43:14 PM »
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  • What you say is not truthful and contradicts Father Purdy's statements in the first video posted. He speaks and translates Spanish. He translated several of the original Spanish handwritten copies (unlike Marion Horvat, who did not translate from the Spanish, but a Portugese copy of a Spanish copy).

    Prof. Cera,

    You probably aren't you're lying... you're just confused.


    At 17:10, in the SSPX propaganda flick that YOU posted, Fr. Purdy admits he doesn't speak Spanish.



    He's a native New Yorker, the home of many great BS artists.  
    (FDR, Jacob Javits, Bella Abzug, Ed Koch, Howard Stern...etc.. etc.)

    I repeat, Fr. Purdy is not a linguist, but sadly he's willfully become... an SSPX propagandist.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #18 on: June 12, 2019, 10:22:45 PM »
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  • Thank you for taking a few steps back and looking at the big historical picture in context. In one of the videos, Father Purdy says Santa Maria de la Buen Suceso de la Purifacion may be translated as Santa Maria of the Good EFFECT of the Purification.
    The good effect, he suggests, came about on the 40th day following the Birth of Jesus, known as Candlemas, Feast of the Purification and the Presentation of Jesus in the Temple.
    Our Lady did not give birth in the manner of a fallen human being, was not contaminated by blood and in an earthly sense, did not need to be purified according to Jewish law. Father Purdy suggests that when St Simeon told Our Lady "a sword will pierce your heart" this was the genesis of her Immaculate Heart. God used her perfect humility and perfect ascent to His will to purify her in this unique way.

    It may be and can be translated as such, but the main translation will always be Good Success. This is far beyond anyone's ability to reverse. We could reasonably conclude that this was meant to be when, according to Our Lady's wishes, the prophecies were made known to the English-speaking world of the 20th century it was as Our Lady of Good Success. Fait accompli.

    Furthermore, "Good Success" has also been used for hundreds of years already to translate the same title in Madrid. The title Our Lady chose for herself in Spanish would prove the be difficult to translate into English precisely. "Good Event" or Fr. Purdy's "Good Effect" is simply not used at all in common English, and they're both really awkward. Off the top of my head, even when you try to create something that makes more sense as an English phrase such as "Positive Effect", "To Good Effect" or "Happy Occasion", it totally misses the mark as well.  We should take a cue from Our Lady and let false friends be fast friends instead: the Spanish describes the actual event, the English describes it's broader consequence.

    Interesting take on the Immaculate Heart, though I think it safer to say her heart was always immaculate. Rather, the Presentation/Purification was the beginning of Our Lady of Sorrows while at the same time remaining one of her joyful mysteries. A double feast, a double mystery, two Hearts, and two languages covering a double aspect on the second day of the second month of the year. Works for me!
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Online Nadir

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #19 on: June 13, 2019, 01:01:59 AM »
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  • Interesting take on the Immaculate Heart, though I think it safer to say her heart was always immaculate. Rather, the Presentation/Purification was the beginning of Our Lady of Sorrows while at the same time remaining one of her joyful mysteries. A double feast, a double mystery, two Hearts, and two languages covering a double aspect on the second day of the second month of the year. Works for me!
    Good observation, Croixalist. The genesis of the Immaculate Heart was indeed from within the womb of her holy mother, Anna.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #20 on: June 14, 2019, 04:10:13 PM »
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  • Prof. Cera,

    You probably aren't you're lying... you're just confused.


    At 17:10, in the SSPX propaganda flick that YOU posted, Fr. Purdy admits he doesn't speak Spanish.



    He's a native New Yorker, the home of many great BS artists.  
    (FDR, Jacob Javits, Bella Abzug, Ed Koch, Howard Stern...etc.. etc.)

    I repeat, Fr. Purdy is not a linguist, but sadly he's willfully become... an SSPX propagandist.
    There is a difference between being a "Spanish speaker" and being able to understand and translate Spanish. The former implies that it is one's native language; the latter applies to anyone who has learned the language.
    Father Purdy mentions reading and translating several of the hand-written copies of the original which are available (the original itself is missing; this is explained in the videos.)
    Marion Hovart did not use the handwritten copies which date back to the time of Mother Mariana; she used a Portugese translation of a Spanish copy.
    i.e. Spanish > Portugese > English
    A great deal can be lost in translation. Father Purdy translated directly from the original Spanish
    i.e. Spanish > English
    This explains Marion Horvat's errors. For example her translation says all the women who came on the ship were nuns and were virgins.


    Father Purday points out that the saint was only 13 and the canonical age to be a nun was the age of 15; therefore she was not a nun. Marion erred in saying they were all nuns.


    He also names one of the sisters who came on the ship who was a widow; she was not a virgin.
    Marion erred in saying there were all virgins.



    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #21 on: June 15, 2019, 02:18:24 PM »
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  • There is a difference between being a "Spanish speaker" and being able to understand and translate Spanish. The former implies that it is one's native language; the latter applies to anyone who has learned the language.
    Father Purdy mentions reading and translating several of the hand-written copies of the original which are available (the original itself is missing; this is explained in the videos.)
    Marion Hovart did not use the handwritten copies which date back to the time of Mother Mariana; she used a Portugese translation of a Spanish copy.
    i.e. Spanish > Portugese > English
    A great deal can be lost in translation. Father Purdy translated directly from the original Spanish
    i.e. Spanish > English
    This explains Marion Horvat's errors. For example her translation says all the women who came on the ship were nuns and were virgins.


    Father Purday points out that the saint was only 13 and the canonical age to be a nun was the age of 15; therefore she was not a nun. Marion erred in saying they were all nuns.


    He also names one of the sisters who came on the ship who was a widow; she was not a virgin.
    Marion erred in saying there were all virgins.

    That's important to keep in mind. In fact, isn't there evidence to suggest that nearly all of them began their novitiate upon arrival in Quito?
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 02:33:15 PM »
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  • There is a difference between being a "Spanish speaker" and being able to understand and translate Spanish. The former implies that it is one's native language; the latter applies to anyone who has learned the language.
    Father Purdy mentions reading and translating several of the hand-written copies of the original which are available (the original itself is missing; this is explained in the videos.)
    Marion Hovart did not use the handwritten copies which date back to the time of Mother Mariana; she used a Portugese translation of a Spanish copy.
    i.e. Spanish > Portugese > English
    A great deal can be lost in translation. Father Purdy translated directly from the original Spanish
    i.e. Spanish > English
    This explains Marion Horvat's errors. For example her translation says all the women who came on the ship were nuns and were virgins.


    Father Purday points out that the saint was only 13 and the canonical age to be a nun was the age of 15; therefore she was not a nun. Marion erred in saying they were all nuns.


    He also names one of the sisters who came on the ship who was a widow; she was not a virgin.
    Marion erred in saying there were all virgins.

    You mention that there is a difference between being a "Spanish speaker" and being able to understand and speak Spanish. I would agree. And it follows that it's the same situation with other languages. For example, my husband's mother was from Holland (the Netherlands). She was able to speak five languages fluently (she was a foreign language teacher). My husband is able to understand the Dutch language, but he doesn't like to speak it. But then Dutch is a difficult language to speak for someone who is not a native. I can understand how someone can understand a language, but not speak it.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #23 on: June 16, 2019, 12:36:15 AM »
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  • There is a difference between being a "Spanish speaker" and being able to understand and translate Spanish. The former implies that it is one's native language; the latter applies to anyone who has learned the language.
    Father Purdy mentions reading and translating several of the hand-written copies of the original which are available (the original itself is missing; this is explained in the videos.)
    Marion Hovart did not use the handwritten copies which date back to the time of Mother Mariana; she used a Portugese translation of a Spanish copy.
    i.e. Spanish > Portugese > English
    A great deal can be lost in translation. Father Purdy translated directly from the original Spanish
    i.e. Spanish > English
    This explains Marion Horvat's errors. For example her translation says all the women who came on the ship were nuns and were virgins.


    Father Purday points out that the saint was only 13 and the canonical age to be a nun was the age of 15; therefore she was not a nun. Marion erred in saying they were all nuns.


    He also names one of the sisters who came on the ship who was a widow; she was not a virgin.
    Marion erred in saying there were all virgins.


    "Incorrect Padre Purdy... it is una, dos, tres, cuatro, cinco... You'll get it, eventually!"
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 02:01:08 PM »
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #25 on: June 21, 2019, 04:57:35 PM »
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #26 on: June 21, 2019, 07:45:27 PM »
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  •   Prof. Cera, can never stop posting SSPX Dutch Branding videos.



                  She's Fr. Purdy's "Energizer troll"





    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #27 on: June 23, 2019, 08:59:46 PM »
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  • That's important to keep in mind. In fact, isn't there evidence to suggest that nearly all of them began their novitiate upon arrival in Quito?
    I don't remember reading that. Do you remember the source?
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    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Our Lady's apparations to Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres
    « Reply #28 on: June 25, 2019, 04:55:56 PM »
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  • I don't remember reading that. Do you remember the source?

    I do, but they do not want to be quoted at the moment. This was my way of looking for outside verification, guess I'll have to keep looking.
    Fortuna finem habet.

     

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