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Offline Jaynek

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Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2019, 04:16:44 PM »
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  • Your convert status has been evident before this announcement. To give you credit due, your attachment to tribal pride is detectable, but considerably less than the average convert from talmudic Judaism. Compare your traditionalism with the subversion by the Marranos of the apostate so-called "Hebrew-Catholics." You are way ahead. Don't be disconcerted by that. :-)
    I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (talmudic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days.  But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors.  It was very disappointing.  
    Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"?  My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #31 on: November 06, 2019, 04:27:44 PM »
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  • I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (talmudic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days.  But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors.  It was very disappointing.  
    Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"?  My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.
    Apostate can apply to one abandoning the Church for heresy. 


    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #32 on: November 06, 2019, 05:18:13 PM »
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  • I was pleased when I first found a website about Hebrew-Catholics because I read an article that acknowledged that (talmudic) Jews, like everyone else, need to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. So many people have lost knowledge of this truth these days.  But then, as I looked at more of the articles, I could see they were full of errors.  It was very disappointing.  
    Why do you refer to them as "apostate" rather than "heretical"?  My impression was the main problem was the heresy of judaizing.
    The Council of Florence infallibly and unchangeably damned Jewish rites:

    Quote
    “§ 712 It [the Holy Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to Divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the Sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors….
     
    “§714 The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,’ (Matthew 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, alms deeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
     
    Cantate Domino, from the infallible ecumenical Council of Florence under His Holiness Pope Eugene IV defining the Solemn Doctrine: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (“Outside the Church, there is no salvation.”), promulgated by papal bull, February 4, 1444 [Florentine calendar] in Denziger, Enchiridion Symbolorum, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, § 712-714

    The "Hebrew-Catholics" have reintroduced those damned rites:

    “Hebrew-Catholics” change agents steeped in talmudic Master Race pride
    Hebrew Catholics make up a false religion of their own contrivances and the rabbis’
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html

    Besides reverting to the damned rite of Sukkot, they have introduced the talmudic hate feast seders, tampered with the words of consecration, and prayers—all of it a reversion to tribal pride, completely ignoring St. Paul's exhortation:

    "There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

    “Conservative” Cardinal Raymond Burke promotes talmudic agitprop
    Raymond the Rabbi attends Seder Meal
    Cardinal Raymond Burke & the Association of Hebrew Catholics
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html


    Their apostate reversions are indications of being in tribal pride, not in Christ Jesus.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #33 on: November 06, 2019, 06:11:05 PM »
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  • The Council of Florence infallibly and unchangeably damned Jewish rites:

    The "Hebrew-Catholics" have reintroduced those damned rites:

    “Hebrew-Catholics” change agents steeped in talmudic Master Race pride
    Hebrew Catholics make up a false religion of their own contrivances and the rabbis’
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/10/hebrew-catholics-make-up-false-religion.html

    Besides reverting to the damned rite of Sukkot, they have introduced the talmudic hate feast seders, tampered with the words of consecration, and prayers—all of it a reversion to tribal pride, completely ignoring St. Paul's exhortation:

    "There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

    “Conservative” Cardinal Raymond Burke promotes talmudic agitprop
    Raymond the Rabbi attends Seder Meal
    Cardinal Raymond Burke & the Association of Hebrew Catholics
    http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2017/04/raymond-rabbi-attends-seder-meal.html


    Their apostate reversions are indications of being in tribal pride, not in Christ Jesus.

    I felt sickened when I first learned that they practiced seders and other Jewish rites.  It just seemed so obviously wrong.  It seemed like a classic example of the heresy of judaizing.  


    Apostate can apply to one abandoning the Church for heresy.
    As I understand it, an apostate formally rejects Catholicism.  These people, however, are claiming to be Catholics while engaged in heretical beliefs and practices.  They should not be trying to preserve a distinct Jewish identity as Catholics.  They should not be talking like they are some sort of special or superior kind of Catholic.  (I really like how Mark explained it as "being in tribal pride not in Christ Jesus.")

    I am just a bit puzzled by the use of the word "apostate" here.  I don't have any real disagreement about how wrong and disgusting it is.

    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #34 on: November 06, 2019, 08:12:32 PM »
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  • Having had the Faith at their respective Baptisms, they left the Faith for their damned rites and tribal pride and are subverting the Faith. I'd call that apostate.

    As far as I am concerned they are simply the latest iteration of Marranos, "neo-Marranos," if you will.


    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #35 on: November 07, 2019, 02:31:49 AM »
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  • It would be a good thing to do, and obviously you have the experience and expertise. But why are you not homeschooling?

    We did consider home schooling as I was home schooled myself, by a Jesuit who lived in our home for 12 years until I was sent off to a Catholic school in England (*). In the end we did not home school our daughter, for three reasons:

    1. The Jesuits Provincial could not spare a priest to come and live-in to our home to educate our daughter and, as I mentioned, my wife is Orthodox.
    2. Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists and child psychologists recommended us against home schooling, as peers socialization is paramount in character development.
    3. We found an Opus Dei school that (we though) would impart correct Catholic catechism. Remember that I begun my re-version only very recently and I did not even suspect that there was a crisis in our Church, let alone understand it.


    (*) there I met a few times Monsignor Cherles-Roux (England Provincial of my school Order). During one such meeting, my father informed him that my grandfather had guarded the 1958 conclave and I remember comments about the conclave's great "mess"... so Mons. Charles-Roux told us hat he too had been involved (I do not remember in what capacity) in the 1958 conclave and he too affirmed of great confusion. He even added that Card. Siri had been elevated to Pontiff with the name of Gregory XIII. I was too young to understand all this and I only awoke to Catholicism recently.



    I am relieved that your eyes have been opened

    So am I. But I feel terribly inadequate and this is why I seek catechism, not only for my daughter, but for myself too. Hence my OP in this thread.

    Tommaso
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #36 on: November 07, 2019, 05:42:54 AM »
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  • Did you go to the provided link?
    http://judaism.is/covenants.html
    Yes but I did not understand most of it as I am not sufficiently well versed with all this topic of Hebrew-Christian.

    I don't even know what they are and what they believe.
    If the council of Florence § 712 and § 714 state what you quote, then the celebration that was cited in the link, the one in the tent, could well be in conflict with our doctrine.

    At this point of my conversion I must focus on other matters but I appreciate that you took the time to help me understand.

    Tommaso
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #37 on: November 07, 2019, 05:47:52 AM »
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  • Boils down to this: Modern "Jews" aren't actually Jews at all, they are the Synagogue of Satan. What he means by "you weren't a Jew until you entered the Church" is that the Church is the new Israel, and Catholicism is the continuation of the faith of the Hebrew fathers. So we're the "real Jews" in a sense.
    I see. Thank you for helping me understand. Now it's a bit clearer.

    It makes sense from a Christian perspective as Christ was born, lived and died as a Jew therefore, by extension, we could call ourselves Jews who believe that the Messiah arrived in conrapposition to Jews who do not believe that the Messiah arrived.


    Of course that's all semantics that makes for very confusing discussion, so I(and 99% of people, even anti-Zionists) will refer to the Synagogue of Satan as the Jews.
    I cannot bring myself to depict Jews as Satan and only believe that they are in error, just as muslims, buddists, protestants, etc..
    Tommaso
    + IHSV


    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #38 on: November 07, 2019, 06:20:53 AM »
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  • If you would like to see an old post of mine about Galileo, here is a link: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/galileo-was-wrong-and-the-church-was-right-to-condemn-him/. When you are ready for a discussion of the subject, we should make a point of putting it in the right subforum: The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism
    Mammamia! That thread is very long. I read the last few posts, by cassini and Ladislaus but reading it all will have to wait for later on when I will have finished my main study here...


    Discussions about Jews and Judaism, depending on what aspect of the issue is the focus, could fit in various subforums so it is more flexible.  I have been participating on traditional Catholic forums for around 10 years now, so I am quite used to dealing with the sort of heated discussions that arise on this and other topics.

    I have observed many different forums and have concluded that it is a matter of trade-offs.  Any forum that attempts to control "tone" ends up lacking free speech among other problems.  Like you, I sometimes find the tone here overly aggressive or emotionally loaded, but it is not something that I expect to change.  Over time, one learns which posters to avoid and which to seek out in order to find the posts that one most appreciates.
    :) thumbs up
    Tommaso
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #39 on: November 07, 2019, 08:24:55 AM »
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  • Having had the Faith at their respective Baptisms, they left the Faith for their damned rites and tribal pride and are subverting the Faith. I'd call that apostate.
    I think I understand.  Their beliefs and practice are so far removed from Catholicism that they have, in effect, left the Faith, even though there was no formal declaration.  You are using the term "apostate" to emphasize how unCatholic it is.  That might not be the technical meaning of apostacy, but it makes sense.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #40 on: November 07, 2019, 08:38:44 AM »
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  • I cannot bring myself to depict Jews as Satan and only believe that they are in error, just as muslims, buddists, protestants, etc..
    The expression "Synagogue of Satan" is a traditional term with a long history behind it.  It is not quite the same as depicting Jews as Satan.  At some time, it may be a good idea for you to do the studying required to understand this topic, but right now you are struggling with more basic issues.  I think you are right to make them the higher priority.

    Even believing that (talmudic) Jews are in error puts you ahead of typical conciliar views.  It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ.  This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass.  As a practical matter, however, you cannot deal with everything at once and I think you have chosen the right starting point.


    Online Mark 79

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 09:34:11 AM »
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  • The expression "Synagogue of Satan" is a traditional term with a long history behind it.  It is not quite the same as depicting Jews as Satan.  At some time, it may be a good idea for you to do the studying required to understand this topic, but right now you are struggling with more basic issues.  I think you are right to make them the higher priority.

    Even believing that (talmudic) Jews are in error puts you ahead of typical conciliar views.  It is far too common to find conciliar Catholics who believe that Jews are saved through Judaism and do not need to accept Christ.  This is actually a significant symptom of the crisis in the Church, although it might not be as apparent as the problems with the Mass.  As a practical matter, however, you cannot deal with everything at once and I think you have chosen the right starting point.
    :applause:

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #42 on: November 08, 2019, 04:08:14 AM »
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  • We did consider home schooling as I was home schooled myself, by a Jesuit who lived in our home for 12 years until I was sent off to a Catholic school in England (*). In the end we did not home school our daughter, for three reasons:

    1. The Jesuits Provincial could not spare a priest to come and live-in to our home to educate our daughter and, as I mentioned, my wife is Orthodox.
    2. Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists and child psychologists recommended us against home schooling, as peers socialization is paramount in character development.
    3. We found an Opus Dei school that (we though) would impart correct Catholic catechism. Remember that I begun my re-version only very recently and I did not even suspect that there was a crisis in our Church, let alone understand it.


    (*) there I met a few times Monsignor Cherles-Roux (England Provincial of my school Order). During one such meeting, my father informed him that my grandfather had guarded the 1958 conclave and I remember comments about the conclave's great "mess"... so Mons. Charles-Roux told us hat he too had been involved (I do not remember in what capacity) in the 1958 conclave and he too affirmed of great confusion. He even added that Card. Siri had been elevated to Pontiff with the name of Gregory XIII. I was too young to understand all this and I only awoke to Catholicism recently.


    So am I. But I feel terribly inadequate and this is why I seek catechism, not only for my daughter, but for myself too. Hence my OP in this thread.
    Thank you, Tommaso, for answering my question related to homeschooling your daughter, supplying the reasons for deciding against it, though you gave it consideration.

    I know that homeschooling is, or was in 2011, practically unheard of in Italy, though it did exist.  It is increasing and you can find some articles on the web.

    When we speak of homeschooling we mean education of the child/ren by the parents in the home/family setting. There are many of us here on CathInfo who do this - for various reasons - but I think the most common reason is so that our children can have a truly Catholic education which is not otherwise available to them. My husband and I homeschooled our children, simply because we believed that they would have a better education, without all the ugliness that was already abounding in the 1980's and 1990's. With God's help we, and they, were very successful.

    About your first reason, I wonder that you would believe you need a Jesuit priest to come and live-in to your home to educate your daughter. I am sure that you and your wife would have enough skill and knowledge to do it yourselves; your Orthodox wife would be able to teach her everything except religion and possibly history (when your daughter is older).

    About the second, I suggest you completely disregard "Three, very conservative, early-age behaviouralists". Indeed "peers socialization" is far from paramount in character development. Actually it could exactly the reverse. In fact homeschooled children tend to be the better socialised, spontaneous and at ease with people across a broad range of ages.

    Sooner or later, many Catholic parents, and many others as well, come to the conclusion that they have no option but to homeschool. By the way there are quite a few threads here on CathInfo on homeschooling.

    My children loved it and are now starting to homeschool our grandchildren who, God willing, will all be homeschooled.

    HSLDA | Home Schooling - Italy
    https://hslda.org/content/hs/international/Italy/default.asp

    Traditional Catholic Homeschooling | Traditional Catholic Priest
    http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/08/19/traditional-catholic-homeschooling/

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #43 on: November 10, 2019, 02:31:46 PM »
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  • Bump

    Offline poche

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    Re: Other Forums for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #44 on: November 11, 2019, 01:12:08 AM »
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  • I feel sad that Fisheaters has closed their Babel forum. I posted the catechism in the Chocktaw language. there were always between 150 and 175 views for every post. At the end it had over 75500 views. That is over 75000 views of people learning about the Catholic Faith (pre-Vatican II) in the Chocktaw language.  

     

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