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Offline Innit

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Orthodox vs Roman Catholicsm
« on: October 02, 2012, 07:21:39 PM »
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  • Just wondering what the whole big deal is between these 2. This guy i know reckons he can't accept papal supremacy/infallibility so he had a big cry and went to the orthodox. Tsssss he's also been Hindu/Islam and most recently Anglican. I'm curious how to deal with these religious NUTTERS, because that's exactly what he is. The Orthodox can trace it's lineage all the way back to the 12 Apostles big whoop...honestly, the shiftiness of this guy arghhhh i just want to scream to the heavens  :facepalm: oh and he's on all these forums. His name? Michael. His signature "St Michael Pray for us". Very conceited he is.  :roll-laugh2:


    Offline Virgil the Roman

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    « Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 01:27:40 AM »
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  • He's been on 2 or 3 different fora that I've been on and has constantly shifted and changed religions. The man needs our prayers. He is sorely afflicted by the Devil and sin. He needs our prayers.  :incense:




    Offline poche

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    « Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 05:12:07 AM »
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  • why don't you pray for them?
     :pray: :pray: :pray:

    Offline nadieimportante

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    « Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 08:11:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: Innit
    Just wondering what the whole big deal is between these 2. This guy i know reckons he can't accept papal supremacy/infallibility so he had a big cry and went to the orthodox. Tsssss he's also been Hindu/Islam and most recently Anglican. I'm curious how to deal with these religious NUTTERS, because that's exactly what he is. The Orthodox can trace it's lineage all the way back to the 12 Apostles big whoop...honestly, the shiftiness of this guy arghhhh i just want to scream to the heavens  :facepalm: oh and he's on all these forums. His name? Michael. His signature "St Michael Pray for us". Very conceited he is.  :roll-laugh2:


    The whole big deal between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox? What is the difference between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox:

    Saying Eastern Orthodox is like saying Protestantism, it really does not exist as one religion. There are many groups, and they are not big on doctrines, so to be brief, look at their history in any history book. Basically, one man broke away, and started the religion in the 1100's, and then they started splitting up into other groups (sound familiar? Just like the Protestants). They have apostolic succesion because the priests that started it, kept that aspect of Catholicism.
    The appeal today of the Eastern Orthodx are all about looks, they look holy, their mass looks holy, their beards look holy (unlike the effeminate happy face New mass Catholic priests), and they are pretty loose when it comes to marriage (you can be married 3 times in their church), and other things that the Catholic Church keeps to what was always done. If they were strict on doctrine, they would loose everybody. Prior to Vatican II, it was a rare thing to find a Catholic becoming an Eastern Orthodox. Today, the Eatern Orthodox "look" more Catholic than any Novus Ordo Cathiolic priest/mass.

    I could explain more, but, that's good enough for now.

    If your friend has fear of God, andis only seeking truth, and not seeking teachers that tell him what he wants to hear, he will eventually find the truth in the Catholic Church. He at least seems to be going in the right direction going from Hindu, Islam, Anglican, and now Eastern Orthodox. (though Islam seems odd, are you sure on that one?)


    For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: 4  And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5  But be thou vigilant: labour in all things: do the work of an evangelist: fulfil thy ministry. Be sober. (2 Tim 4)


    "Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.
     Right is right even if no one is doing it." - Saint Augustine

    Offline nadieimportante

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    « Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 10:42:56 AM »
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  • In Florida, there is an overseas highway that goes from the mainland to Key West. The highway bridges connect the little islands that stretch between the mainland and Key West the final island, going over the Atlantic Ocean for like 130 miles.

    The bridges were originally completed in like 1920 for use as railroad, not as a highway for cars. A hurricane came in like 1926 and damaged the tracks. When they fixed the bridges, they converted them to vehicle traffic exclusively. In order to do that they had to place outriggers on the narrow (designed for only railroad track) bridges, and thus they could build roads on the bridges. The road though was very narrow. I road on it as a young man, and when an 18 wheel tractor trailer would come from the other direction on the bridge, you would slow down and hold on for a big shaking and a scary visual squeeze. That was alright, hardly anyone used the highway back then only people who liked to go fishing in the Keys.

    The building of the highway had been a construction/engineering wonder. It withstood the tide flows, and salt for all those years. However, 50 years later, the "new and improved" (or so they thought they were) engineers said it would be cheaper to build a new highway, than to keep paying for maintenance repairs on the old bridges.

    Therefore, in early 1980's they built a new wider "better engineered" highway. As I saw the new highway being built, I observed the contrast between the old bridges (which were never removed, and can still be seen today), and the new ones. The new ones were like toothpicks compared to the massive old bridges. They changed everything, they basically said "The old people didn't know what to expect and they overbuilt the bridges. We today we are wiser, we have better engineering skills".

    Seven years after they built the new highway, the maintenance on them had started to become more expensive than what it had cost to maintain the old bridges after they were 50 years old. The biggest problem was that the reinforcing rods (rebar) in the underwater concrete foundations (and pillars) were rusting at an outrageously fast pace. The rebar was spalding, that is exploding the concrete, cracking it from the rusting like popcorn of the rebar. The bridges were in great danger from this, since it relied of engineering rather than bulk as the old bridges did. If a column went, there was big trouble.

    Bottom line, the new and improved engineers didn't respect the old timers. The new engineers thought that they were smarter. The new engineers ignored the past experiences of the others that came before them, and they just ended up learning themselves why the old timers did it the way they did.  

    "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    What Does That Have to do With Catholicism?

    I think it is a good analogy. Since like the 1940's till today, the Catholics (you can forget about the rest of the world, and its millions of "religions", they never had the true faith) have lost their foundations, they have "forgotten how things were built", and went on to build "a new and improved religion". They completed it in the 1960's, and it immediately collapsed and required constant maintenance.

    The new keys bridges, the new catholic "faith", the new and improved engineers, the new and improved progressivist clergy. “Misma mierda, diferent envase”. (Spanish expression, that translates to: Same dung, different packaging")

    If you want to learn the faith, you have to trace it back to what "the old timers learned". Every new generation does not have to learn it by making the same mistakes all over again.

    Go back to the 1850's and back, and you'll find everything as it always was.
    "Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.
     Right is right even if no one is doing it." - Saint Augustine


    Offline Roland Deschain

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    « Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 03:28:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: nadieimportante
    Quote from: Innit
    Just wondering what the whole big deal is between these 2. This guy i know reckons he can't accept papal supremacy/infallibility so he had a big cry and went to the orthodox. Tsssss he's also been Hindu/Islam and most recently Anglican. I'm curious how to deal with these religious NUTTERS, because that's exactly what he is. The Orthodox can trace it's lineage all the way back to the 12 Apostles big whoop...honestly, the shiftiness of this guy arghhhh i just want to scream to the heavens  :facepalm: oh and he's on all these forums. His name? Michael. His signature "St Michael Pray for us". Very conceited he is.  :roll-laugh2:


    The whole big deal between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox? What is the difference between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox:

    Saying Eastern Orthodox is like saying Protestantism, it really does not exist as one religion. There are many groups, and they are not big on doctrines, so to be brief, look at their history in any history book. Basically, one man broke away, and started the religion in the 1100's, and then they started splitting up into other groups (sound familiar? Just like the Protestants). They have apostolic succesion because the priests that started it, kept that aspect of Catholicism.
    The appeal today of the Eastern Orthodx are all about looks, they look holy, their mass looks holy, their beards look holy (unlike the effeminate happy face New mass Catholic priests), and they are pretty loose when it comes to marriage (you can be married 3 times in their church), and other things that the Catholic Church keeps to what was always done. If they were strict on doctrine, they would loose everybody. Prior to Vatican II, it was a rare thing to find a Catholic becoming an Eastern Orthodox. Today, the Eatern Orthodox "look" more Catholic than any Novus Ordo Cathiolic priest/mass.

    I could explain more, but, that's good enough for now.

    If your friend has fear of God, andis only seeking truth, and not seeking teachers that tell him what he wants to hear, he will eventually find the truth in the Catholic Church. He at least seems to be going in the right direction going from Hindu, Islam, Anglican, and now Eastern Orthodox. (though Islam seems odd, are you sure on that one?)


    For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: 4  And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5  But be thou vigilant: labour in all things: do the work of an evangelist: fulfil thy ministry. Be sober. (2 Tim 4)




    I wouldn't say like the Protestants. Most of the divisions among the Orthodox are along ethnic, jurisdictional lines. Sure you have schisms mostly having to do with false ecuмenism and political matters (see the recently repaired schism between the ROCOR and the MP.) Considering that they lack a visible head, they have managed to maintain doctrine and practice a lot better then we have considering the last 50 years.

    I must confess, I have been very tempted in recent years to "Dox" considering all that has gone on in the Roman Church. Honestly, the issue(s) that held the most weight in my deciding that the Orthodox Church cannot be the True Church is their, as you mentioned, very lax and worldly attitudes towards sɛҳuąƖ morality. Contraception is winked and nodded at. Divorce 3 times? No problem. Abortion in the case of rape or "health of the mother?" Ok.

    The Orthodox have this theological concept called "Economia" which pretty much equals license in practical usage.

    This is all not to mention their virulent hatred of ANYTHING smacking of Western Scholasticism.


    Offline Daegus

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    « Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 05:39:20 PM »
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  • The main difference to note is that one religion is Christian and one isn't. Can you guess which one that is?

    No, this is not a trick question.

    Also, the "Orthodox" cannot trace their lineage back to the 12 apostles. That is untrue.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 05:41:30 PM »
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  • Quote
    They have apostolic succesion because the priests that started it, kept that aspect of Catholicism.


    They have valid orders and sacraments, not apostolic succession.


    Offline Traditionalmom

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    « Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 10:10:56 PM »
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  • Um the Orthodox are hardcore heretics how can I say that? I've been to their churches; in our city alone there are ROCOR (russian orthodox church outside of russian), OCA (orthodox church of America), Antiochians, and Greeks all of them believe that Christ died to make us perfect like Adam and Eve and NOT to appease God's wrath toward sinful man. Not only that they don't believe in a biblical/traditional hell. Their hell is in the presence of God and while the saved are in his presence for eternity enjoying his love as comfort the damned are also in his presence for eternity (same place not separation) and they feel his love as "pain and suffering". No fire, no darkness, no separation. His "love" is a burning fire and torment.

    It's a load of B.S. It was first promoted by Isaac the Syrian then glorified by an idiot evolutionist greek orthodox doctor guy named Alexander Kalimiros. He claims God never is wrathful and is only ever loving. We were given this by the head priest of a 4 priest O'dox church in their visitor/catechism class. We were so disturbed we called all the area churches and found out this is the main O'dox belief on hell. Only a Serbian O'dox church an hour or so away disagreed with this but he was somewhat ok with communing an out and out pro-abort. Anyway here's Kalimiros's "River of Fire" talk as I warned the folks on FE about this I warn you you'll need a bucket for the vomit you'll spew out.  :barf: It ticked my husband and I off so much reading it we had to stop several times...and to think this utter piece of dog crap is pushed as "doctrinally correct" in O'dox circles. You dump the Papacy this is what happens...

    http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

    and this is the rebuttal by a split off Orthodox guy named Vladimir Moss. (you know those Orthodox are like Prods as often as they split and why...

    this is actually a pretty sound work about why God created hell for justice...  :smile:

    http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/207/%E2%80%9C-river-fire%E2%80%9D-revisited/

    To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant.-John Henry Cardinal Newman

    He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shal

    Offline Traditionalmom

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    « Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 10:20:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Roland Deschain
    Quote from: nadieimportante
    Quote from: Innit
    Just wondering what the whole big deal is between these 2. This guy i know reckons he can't accept papal supremacy/infallibility so he had a big cry and went to the orthodox. Tsssss he's also been Hindu/Islam and most recently Anglican. I'm curious how to deal with these religious NUTTERS, because that's exactly what he is. The Orthodox can trace it's lineage all the way back to the 12 Apostles big whoop...honestly, the shiftiness of this guy arghhhh i just want to scream to the heavens  oh and he's on all these forums. His name? Michael. His signature "St Michael Pray for us". Very conceited he is.  :roll-laugh2:


    The whole big deal between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox? What is the difference between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox:

    Saying Eastern Orthodox is like saying Protestantism, it really does not exist as one religion. There are many groups, and they are not big on doctrines, so to be brief, look at their history in any history book. Basically, one man broke away, and started the religion in the 1100's, and then they started splitting up into other groups (sound familiar? Just like the Protestants). They have apostolic succesion because the priests that started it, kept that aspect of Catholicism.
    The appeal today of the Eastern Orthodx are all about looks, they look holy, their mass looks holy, their beards look holy (unlike the effeminate happy face New mass Catholic priests), and they are pretty loose when it comes to marriage (you can be married 3 times in their church), and other things that the Catholic Church keeps to what was always done. If they were strict on doctrine, they would loose everybody. Prior to Vatican II, it was a rare thing to find a Catholic becoming an Eastern Orthodox. Today, the Eatern Orthodox "look" more Catholic than any Novus Ordo Cathiolic priest/mass.

    I could explain more, but, that's good enough for now.

    If your friend has fear of God, andis only seeking truth, and not seeking teachers that tell him what he wants to hear, he will eventually find the truth in the Catholic Church. He at least seems to be going in the right direction going from Hindu, Islam, Anglican, and now Eastern Orthodox. (though Islam seems odd, are you sure on that one?)


    For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears: 4  And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5  But be thou vigilant: labour in all things: do the work of an evangelist: fulfil thy ministry. Be sober. (2 Tim 4)




    I wouldn't say like the Protestants. Most of the divisions among the Orthodox are along ethnic, jurisdictional lines. Sure you have schisms mostly having to do with false ecuмenism and political matters (see the recently repaired schism between the ROCOR and the MP.) Considering that they lack a visible head, they have managed to maintain doctrine and practice a lot better then we have considering the last 50 years.

    I must confess, I have been very tempted in recent years to "Dox" considering all that has gone on in the Roman Church. Honestly, the issue(s) that held the most weight in my deciding that the Orthodox Church cannot be the True Church is their, as you mentioned, very lax and worldly attitudes towards sɛҳuąƖ morality. Contraception is winked and nodded at. Divorce 3 times? No problem. Abortion in the case of rape or "health of the mother?" Ok.

    The Orthodox have this theological concept called "Economia" which pretty much equals license in practical usage.

    This is all not to mention their virulent hatred of ANYTHING smacking of Western Scholasticism.



    Ahh yes the "western" thing. If a O'dox person wants to insult you he calls you "western". Not to mention many O'dox call St. Augustine-Blessed Augustine not believing he's a Saint.  :facepalm:
    To be steeped in history is to cease to be protestant.-John Henry Cardinal Newman

    He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shal

    Offline Roland Deschain

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    « Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 06:34:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditionalmom
    Um the Orthodox are hardcore heretics how can I say that? I've been to their churches; in our city alone there are ROCOR (russian orthodox church outside of russian), OCA (orthodox church of America), Antiochians, and Greeks all of them believe that Christ died to make us perfect like Adam and Eve and NOT to appease God's wrath toward sinful man. Not only that they don't believe in a biblical/traditional hell. Their hell is in the presence of God and while the saved are in his presence for eternity enjoying his love as comfort the damned are also in his presence for eternity (same place not separation) and they feel his love as "pain and suffering". No fire, no darkness, no separation. His "love" is a burning fire and torment.

    It's a load of B.S. It was first promoted by Isaac the Syrian then glorified by an idiot evolutionist greek orthodox doctor guy named Alexander Kalimiros. He claims God never is wrathful and is only ever loving. We were given this by the head priest of a 4 priest O'dox church in their visitor/catechism class. We were so disturbed we called all the area churches and found out this is the main O'dox belief on hell. Only a Serbian O'dox church an hour or so away disagreed with this but he was somewhat ok with communing an out and out pro-abort. Anyway here's Kalimiros's "River of Fire" talk as I warned the folks on FE about this I warn you you'll need a bucket for the vomit you'll spew out.  :barf: It ticked my husband and I off so much reading it we had to stop several times...and to think this utter piece of dog crap is pushed as "doctrinally correct" in O'dox circles. You dump the Papacy this is what happens...

    http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm

    and this is the rebuttal by a split off Orthodox guy named Vladimir Moss. (you know those Orthodox are like Prods as often as they split and why...

    this is actually a pretty sound work about why God created hell for justice...  :smile:

    http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/207/%E2%80%9C-river-fire%E2%80%9D-revisited/



    The idea of Christ becoming man so that man may become God is certainly a valid theological perspective when it comes to the Redemption. St Peter states that we have been made partakers of the Divine Nature. The Greek Fathers stress man's "deification" or "theosis" rather then having a strictly juridical understanding of the redemption.

    I think the error people make is in pitting one perspective against the other. They are mutually enriching rather then contradictory. The Orthodox really do seem to downplay the juridical, vicarious aspect of the Atonement to be sure. I find this untenable given the OT sacrificial rites as an obvious precursor to Christ's redemption. St Paul certainly adheres to this perspective as well. St Augustine, St Thomas and the scholastics are really just a continuation and refining of this perfectly biblical and Traditional understanding. I think that for a lot of O'dox, they are simply to prideful to admit that the "Western barbarians" could have anything of value to add on matters theological.


    Offline nadieimportante

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    « Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 10:39:13 AM »
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  • I didn't say it initially because for the person I was writing to, it would be too much. But, now that everyone has added to what I wrote, let me finish by saying that the Eastern Orthodox are outside of the Church, they are heretics and schismatics, and thus are on the road to hell. 2 of the 9 dogmatic/infallible decrees saying so:

    Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
    “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jєωs or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”


    Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra:
    “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

    "Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.
     Right is right even if no one is doing it." - Saint Augustine

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 10:48:54 AM »
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  • More and more, Orthodox are accepting the World....and its poisons. Many E-Catholic priests are, in the spirit of V2, getting very chummy with the Orthodox, though the Orthodox want them to convert, not be quid pro and all..some priests I think secretly want to be Orthodox, from what I heard first and 2nd hand.

    Was always taught that the Orthodox have valid sacraments and priesthood, meaning too, they have valid lineage back to the 12....if no valid lineage to the 12 apostales,then, could have no valid sacrements and priesthood to start with, like the Prots who have none..

    orthodox are malleable to the times and rulers,etc. Hence, most in the WCC. The Russians, loaded with ex-KGB agents and hence, fearing a surge of EC and Roman rite activiity on "their" soil.

    Nadie, true and good quotes, might want to do some research of your own, on the falling dollar, false economic policies, the Fed and the Church's teaching on the poor and downtrodden, the ones you Romney-like mock...or your support for a liberal flip-flopper mormon cultic as well, somehow, the quotes you posted dont jive with electing a man that thinks we all become gods, have our own harems and worlds to populate or that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. or that mormons can "baptise' the dead.......Mormonism teaches many doctrines contra Trinity and fundamental Christian truths.....and thsi is the man you proudly stated you are voting for.......and no, it matters NOT that Obama is in office, voting evil to fight evil is not a solution...pinch of incense to cesear or an equally pagan usurper, neither valid, we then have no options, save for Third party or write in.....think cultic Romney will reverse abortion? queer rights? stop Neocon agenda (unlikely, as he was in Israel for $$ and marching orders not long ago)???
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 10:56:02 AM »
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  • when a friend was going from RCC to Eastern Rite and joining a EC Chapel, he was complaining about how the East does not have to accept the Council of Trent and others....this is common slight the EC takes the Orthodox positions at times over.

    My response:
    -Trent is binding on all Catholics, regardless of Rite, except wehre specific rubrics,etc stand.
    -The EC were still orthodox schismatices at time of Trent, not OUR fault they were not there to input on Trent, was theirs....
    -All dogmas, prior to Trent or after are binding........maybe different experssions of it or descriptiosn, fine and good, but binding....

    Most Orthodox might be friendly enough and open to teh Fide enough, some thoguh are very arrogant.......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Roland Deschain

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    « Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 11:06:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: nadieimportante
    I didn't say it initially because for the person I was writing to, it would be too much. But, now that everyone has added to what I wrote, let me finish by saying that the Eastern Orthodox are outside of the Church, they are heretics and schismatics, and thus are on the road to hell. 2 of the 9 dogmatic/infallible decrees saying so:

    Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
    “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jєωs or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”


    Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra:
    “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.”



    Did these papal decrees confirm ideas of papal primacy as understood in the East? It seems as if these papal prerogatives developed gradually over the centuries. It seems as if the majority of Eastern bishops and faithful did not have this idea of the extent of Papal authority.

    What can we point to either doctrinally or historically that can back up these claims? What are we to make of the 28th canon of the Council of Chalcedon? It appears that the Eastern Sees in making this declaration were unaware of Rome's overarching authority.