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Author Topic: On marrying without parental permission  (Read 4704 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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On marrying without parental permission
« on: March 29, 2010, 04:03:22 PM »
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    Reply to Objection 1: The maid is in her father's power, not as a female slave without power over her own body, but as a daughter, for the purpose of education. Hence, in so far as she is free, she can give herself into another's power without her father's consent, even as a son or daughter, since they are free, may enter religion without their parent's consent.


    http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/sum590.htm
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 04:43:11 PM »
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 04:49:39 PM »
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    • Does the SSPX really stand with St. Thomas and Tradition on this point?

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    Nevertheless man  is bound to obey his fellow-man in things that have to be done externally by means of the body: and yet, since by nature all men are equal, he is not bound to obey another man in matters touching the nature  of the body, for instance in those relating to the support of his body or the begetting of his children. Wherefore servants are not bound to obey their masters, nor children their parents, in the question of contracting marriage or of remaining in the state of virginity or the like.


    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3104.htm
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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 05:53:30 PM »
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    • In what respect?
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #4 on: July 12, 2010, 05:59:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus
    In what respect?


    In the respect that their priests claim to have a "praxis" in regards to the courting of young women: that a woman who is passed the age of majority must not even be contacted without the father's consent, and threaten to bar a parishioner from Church if he does not get a father's consent.



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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #5 on: July 12, 2010, 08:05:12 PM »
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    • What is the age of majority?
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #6 on: July 12, 2010, 08:08:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus
    What is the age of majority?


    It is 18 according to Canon Law.  There's no principle of Faith here that can justify resistance to it.  I think it's pretty clear that the principle St. Thomas lays out has nothing to do with a child is 21 or even 25, as the Spanish Crown tried to impose under anti-clerical influence.




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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 08:13:35 PM »
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    • You're certain there is not other factors involved other than the question of such a practice?
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 08:16:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Caminus
    You're certain there is not other factors involved other than the question of such a practice?


    The priests say from the pulpit you may not date a young woman without a father's consent - and then say that is a praxis.

    It's not Catholic, period.

    PS And I would add, I suspect strongly that they use the confessional to impose a father's will, even on a girl who has reached majority, to tell a girl not even to speak to someone her father does not approve.
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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #9 on: July 12, 2010, 08:24:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Caminus
    You're certain there is not other factors involved other than the question of such a practice?


    The priests say from the pulpit you may not date a young woman without a father's consent - and then say that is a praxis.

    It's not Catholic, period.


    It wouldn't be the first time in the history of the Church where a recent or regional custom is confused with ecclesiastical tradition.  But I haven't researched the matter so I couldn't say for certain.  I wouldn't start making public denunciations quite yet.  We're in the midst of a crisis, everyone is tense and on edge.    
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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #10 on: July 12, 2010, 08:27:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Caminus
    You're certain there is not other factors involved other than the question of such a practice?


    The priests say from the pulpit you may not date a young woman without a father's consent - and then say that is a praxis.

    It's not Catholic, period.

    PS And I would add, I suspect strongly that they use the confessional to impose a father's will, even on a girl who has reached majority, to tell a girl not even to speak to someone her father does not approve.


    What if it is a question of trying to advert a greater evil?  I would guess that is a real possibility, without even getting into the question of absolute principle.  Usually, SSPX priests are more careful not to blurt out uncritical, unfounded opinions.
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #11 on: July 12, 2010, 09:11:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Telesphorus

    The priests say from the pulpit you may not date a young woman without a father's consent - and then say that is a praxis.


    What is a praxis?

    You've heard this in multiple churches?
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    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Raoul76

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 11:44:22 PM »
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    • I could try to use this to capitalize on my anti-SSPX views, but that would be unfair.  I must agree with Caminus ( for once ) that in a time of confusion, some slack has to be cut.  The CMRI, for instance, created a whole new Order without any Pope to ratify it, and sticks their nuns in midnight-blue habits.  They're cool, don't get me wrong, but come on -- isn't it best to stick to the basics in a time like this?  But there are few if any trads out there who aren't pushing epikeia a little bit.  
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    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 07:24:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: Telesphorus

    The priests say from the pulpit you may not date a young woman without a father's consent - and then say that is a praxis.


    What is a praxis?

    You've heard this in multiple churches?


    A priest told me personally the society has a "praxis." on this.
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    Offline Caminus

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    On marrying without parental permission
    « Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 11:49:53 PM »
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    • I'm still not clear what you mean by that.  Are you saying that the priest is saying that all SSPX priests teach that fathers have authority to determine relationships after a certain age?  There's just not enough information here.
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