Dear Matthew,
I am a bit confused.
At the beginning of the thread it says:
…around Vatican II…
but then it also says:
…immediately before Vatican II…
Then it says:
Those who claim the Catholic Church has been in eclipse since BEFORE the 1960's…
Vatican II was announced in A.D 1959 (possibly), and started in A.D. 1962.
But many traditional Catholics would say the eclipse of the Church dates from A.D. 1958.
Or after the death of Pope Pius XII, or however it would be phrased.
I would say that it dates from shortly after the death of Pope Pius XII.
Almost all sedevacantists would say that the loss of authority, and consequent obedience started after the death of Pope Pius XII.
Is that acceptable for members of CathInfo?
I think it is important, because it might put many excellent Catholics off of joining CathInfo, if they think they have to accept the “papacy” of John XXIII.
Some people read the criteria for joining a forum before they join, and you probably do not want to lose good potential CathInfo members.
In the time of John XXIII many things were overtly evil:
they banned various good prayers, they announced Vatican II, they refused to release the Third Secret of Fatima, they acquiesced to evil in many other ways.
And he did many other evil things.
Many traditional Catholics knew that things were very bad then.
So can a member of CathInfo hold that the eclipse of the Church began after the death of Pope Pius XII
in A.D 1958, instead of A.D 1959 or A.D.1962 (date of Vatican II)?
I agree that the Catholic Church before the death of Pope Pius XII was unequivocally the Catholic Church and worthy of all the privileges of that position (respect, deference, obedience, membership). But I am not sure of the exact date, or something like that, when it stopped being all of those things. And I am not sure exactly where the Catholic Church actually genuinely was after that time. Or something like that. I am not sure if I have accurately put my position here. But it is something along these lines, more or less. I accept that it was the true Church until sometime in A.D 1958, and that the Catholic Church still is the true Church, but it is not the same thing as the conciliar church or the heretical group started by John XIII after the death of Pope Pius XII in A.D 1958.
If you do not post anything on this thread to the contrary, I will assume that it is alright for me (and others) to continue posting on CathInfo and being a member and everything, even though I believe that the Church has been in eclipse, etc. (possibly, although it is depending on what is meant by the eclipse of the Church) since sometime in A.D 1958, instead of A.D. 1962.
It bothered me, because I felt that I might be going against my conscience or something similar to that.
So I thought that I had better tell you what I believe.
Thank you for CathInfo.
Thank you for providing a Forum where real Catholics are allowed.
God Bless you, Matthew.
Yours,
Sede Catholic