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Author Topic: Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs  (Read 2564 times)

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Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
« on: May 03, 2013, 01:20:09 PM »
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  • http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/notre-dame-professor-tackles-myth-christian-martyrdom-151620492.html

    Notre Dame professor tackles ‘myth’ of Christian martyrdom
    By Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News
    National Affairs Reporter

    By Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News | The Lookout – 2 hrs 51 mins ago

    Candida Moss, a professor of early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame and a practicing Catholic, wants to shatter what she calls the “myth” of martyrdom in the Christian faith.

    Sunday school tales of early Christians being rounded up at their secret catacomb meetings and thrown to the lions by evil Romans are mere fairy tales, Moss writes in a new book. In fact, in the first 250 years of Christianity, Romans mostly regarded the religion's practitioners as meddlesome members of a superstitious cult.

    The government actively persecuted Christians for only about 10 years, Moss suggests, and even then intermittently. And, she says, many of the best known early stories of brave Christian martyrs were entirely fabricated.

    The controversial thesis, laid out in "The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom," has earned her a lot of hate mail and a few sidelong looks from fellow faculty members. But Moss maintains that the Roman Catholic Church and historians have known for centuries that most early Christian martyr stories were exaggerated or invented.

    A small group of priest scholars in the 17th century began sifting through the myths, discrediting not only embellished stories about saints (including that St. George slew a dragon) but also tossing out popular stories about early Christian martyrs.

    Historians, including Moss, say only a handful of martyrdom stories from the first 300 years of Christianity—which includes the reign of the cruel, Christian-loathing Nero—are verifiable. (Saint Perpetua of Carthage, pictured in the stained glass window above, is one of the six famous early Christian martyrs Moss believes was actually killed for her faith.)

    Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians’ execution were not specifically targeted at them—such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods—but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

    Moss calls early Christians “rude, subversive and disrespectful,” noting that they refused to swear oaths, join the military or participate in any other part of Roman society.

    Moss can at times seem clinical when attempting to distinguish between true and systematic persecution of Christians for their faith and intermittent violence against them for refusing to conform.

    "If persecution is to be defined as hostility toward a group because of its religious beliefs, then surely it is important that the Romans intended to target Christians,” she writes. “Otherwise this is prosecution, not persecution."

    With true government persecution, victims have no room to negotiate when trying to convince the government to stop targeting them, Moss said. But when the government’s laws inadvertently lead to the persecution of Christians, there remains room for dialogue and debate over changing those laws.

    “The reason I make the distinction is in the case of people seeking you out, torturing you just because you’re Christian—which did happen for a few years—in that situation, you can’t negotiate,” she said. “You have no opportunity to resist or to fight back. In a situation where there’s sort of disagreements … there’s room for debate.”

    Moss pointed to the new U.S. health care law's requirement that insurance companies cover contraception as an example of a law that inadvertently targeted Christians but was interpreted as a direct attack on the faith.

    Much like the Emperor Diocletian’s edict that all Romans make a sacrifice to the gods (which Moss describes as being like a mandatory “pledge of allegiance”), the contraceptive mandate was not designed to target or single out Christians, she says. (Christians and others who refused to make the sacrifice in the fourth century were slaughtered. Christian organizations that do not want to provide contraception under the 21st century law will be fined.)

    Notre Dame is one dozens of religiously affiliated universities that sued over the birth control mandate, saying providing its employees and students with health insurance that covered contraceptives would violate the university's religious freedom.

    Some in the religious community framed the contraceptive mandate as a deliberate persecution of Christians, rather than as bad policy, Moss says, in a way that’s made it difficult for them to negotiate.

    “Labeling it persecution is saying, ‘We’re under attack, we’re persecuted. The other side has no reason to do this and we have to fight. We shouldn’t have to negotiate or compromise,” she said.

    Moss says she is personally against her university’s decision to sue over the mandate.

    “I think that the University of Notre Dame does not control how I spend my salary, therefore controlling what kinds of health care people have access to is maybe something we should not be trying to do,” she said. “I think Catholic institutions should trust their employees not to use contraception.”

    Moss said the early Christian “persecution complex” influences the present-day political debate in America. The cable news hobbyhorse that there’s a deliberate “War on Christmas” in America is one example of a modern day martyrdom myth, she said.

    When former House Speaker Newt Gingrich argued during his campaign for the GOP presidential nomination last year that there was an “aggressive” war on Christianity waged throughout the country, Moss also heard echoes of apocryphal martyrdom.

    Moss says she thinks dispelling the myths of martyrdom of the early church will not minimize the true instances of religious persecution occurring around the world.

    “I completely sympathize with [my critics'] concern that in writing a book like this maybe I will make people less interested in persecution that is happening around the world,” she said. “I do care. I think we should care about those who are oppressed. I don’t think misusing the category here in America draws attention to persecution around the world. I think it cannibalizes those experiences. It steals their thunder.”
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 01:22:27 PM »
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  • Why post this?

    Don't we know these people are anti-Christians?

    These schools have been refusing to hire believing Catholics to teach for a long time now.



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #2 on: May 03, 2013, 01:23:16 PM »
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  • Notre Dame is a lame excuse for a Catholic school.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Matto

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #3 on: May 03, 2013, 01:36:26 PM »
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  • Are there any Catholic schools left?

    P.S. Sorry SSS, I gave you a thumbs down by accident.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #4 on: May 03, 2013, 01:37:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    P.S. Sorry SSS, I gave you a thumbs down by accident.


     :laugh1: I was wondering who gave him a thumbs-down. I thought maybe Fr. Richard McBrien had joined the forum.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Napoli

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 01:45:38 PM »
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  • It's an affront against Our Lady to call that institution Notre Dame!
    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 03:04:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    P.S. Sorry SSS, I gave you a thumbs down by accident.


    It's fine, no worries.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Frances

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 03:25:39 PM »
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  • Not surprising; so what are Catholics doing about it?   Boycott the University.  No tuition$ until the professor goes or recants.  How many students are equipped to intelligently refute these lies?

    Or do we sit home, never marry, contribute nothing to society, follow no more vocations because the world is so evil?  

    Sins of omission damn as surely as sins of comission.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 04:30:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    Not surprising; so what are Catholics doing about it?   Boycott the University.  No tuition$ until the professor goes or recants.  How many students are equipped to intelligently refute these lies?

    Or do we sit home, never marry, contribute nothing to society, follow no more vocations because the world is so evil?  

    Sins of omission damn as surely as sins of comission.


    No, we continue to do as we always have.

    As for sin, we're probably engaging in sin by giving this nonsense five minutes of our time.  A book out debunking martyrs?  So what!  We've already had dozens of books in the last five years purporting to debunk Christ Himself.        

    By the way, Frances, people go into vocations to consecrate themselves, to make their life a sacrifice, to immolate themselves for love of God and not to remove evil from the world.  I don't know where you got the idea from reading our responses that we were going to shut down our homes and stop having children because the world is so evil.  The world is evil of course, didn't Our Lord say (paraphrasing) that we were chosen out of the world because we do not belong to the world.

    As for the writer, she is using sleight of hand nonsense anyway that any student engaging in logic at the level of U. Notre Dame should handle easily.  With the relative scarcity of actual extant docuмentation of that time period, it will be easier for people to shrug their shoulders and say "It didn't happen.  Show me the evidence and I'll believe you."  For a case example of this, remember that less and less evidence is retained of the Bolshevik revolution.  Even the location where the Romanov family was massacred was torn down and not preserved.  Even now in 2013 most public school students know virtually nothing about the Bolshevik revolution.  What knowledge will they have in 2063?  Then forward to 2283 and their will be writers saying the Bolshevik revolution is a right wing myth manufactured to cast a dark light on the good work of the communists.

    To counter the writer, let's say, for the sake of imagination, if I'm living in ancient Rome and refuse to make a sacrifice to a god other than Our Lord and I am executed for this then it's not persecution but prosecution?  Only my faithfulness to Our Lord prevented me from following the whims and bloody wishes of the state so is there a difference?  Besides, don't we already have plenty of extant docuмentary evidence of Christians being sentenced to death for merely admitting they were Christian and affirming that they would not renounce their beliefs?  Isn't it mentioned in the Annals of Tacitus?  However, the novus ordites may actually consider following the government even when it contradicts following their faith (which rarely happens in the novus ordo) but a Catholic who actually follows the Catholic faith will be in a pickle if he finds himself in this situation.  

    As a side note, this professor who wrote the book disagrees with Notre Dame's lawsuit againt the Obama Health Care mandate and the professor thinks the "War of Christmas" was just propaganda?  It's only called propaganda now because we're fighting back and anyone paying attention knows that there are many instances of "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".

    Offline Incredulous

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 04:54:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Why post this?

    Don't we know these people are anti-Christians?

    These schools have been refusing to hire believing Catholics to teach for a long time now.




    Well... come on now Tele.
    Its good to know what the enemy is doing.
    I have a feeling the media is going to promoter her book aggressively.

    Candida Moss... hmm, could her family surname have been "Moses"?

    In England, it was common for Jєωs to change their surnames to blend-in with the gentiles. For example:


    "Moss was born in London in 1929 to a Jєωιѕн family (his grandfather changed his last name from Moses to Moss to better assimilate".
    (Source: The Arty Semite)

    For fun, try surfing Notre Dame's website: Notre Dame University website

    You'll find as many Jєωιѕн surnames at that university, as you would in a New York Bar mitzvah.

    Just more proof that the tribe has mastered the art of infiltration.

    In the same tradition, Dresden "Maxie" represents the SSPX's own special case.




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 05:20:29 PM »
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  • Now could it be, this "Catholic religion PhD" is but a bottle blonde Yenta with a nose job ?

    She is reported to have made several contributions to National Geographic.

    National Geographic is a tribe publication.  They promoted the bogus archeological find of the "last gospel of judas".  
    They said, it proved he was a nice man.

    What frauds they are!
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Novus Weirdo

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 05:29:35 PM »
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  • Meh, Notre Dame isn't even a real school anymore.  Just like that bellringer they had.  He wasn't even a real modo.  He was a quasi-modo.

    Offline Frances

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 05:44:06 PM »
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  • Sins of omission damn as surely as sins of comission.[/quote]

    No, we continue to do as we always have.

    Sorry, Capt!  I was speaking facetiously!  This  highlights a fault of the internet.  You took me seriously!  Catholics will no more reform the world than Bp. Fellay and the SSPX the Vatican II church!

    I see someone else down-thumbed me, so the fault is at least partially mine.  Next time I intend  to  be sarcastic, I'll say so and use an emoticon.

    Now, I DO have better use for the time, so farewell!   :roll-laugh1:
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #13 on: May 03, 2013, 05:50:14 PM »
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  • It's all good, Frances.  Only a couple lines in my post was directed to you.  

    I'm glad you were being facetious  :king:


    Offline Lighthouse

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    Notre Dame "scholar" attacks "myth" of Christian martyrs
    « Reply #14 on: May 03, 2013, 10:28:11 PM »
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  • Candida Moss?  Isn't that the scientific name for some kind of yeast infection?