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Author Topic: NO confession  (Read 1398 times)

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Offline love alabama

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NO confession
« on: September 13, 2011, 02:31:56 PM »
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  • Another thing I found on FE.



    compared to the old rite Absolution formula, what do you think of the new one?
    -------------------------------
    God, the Father of mercies,
    through the death and resurrection of his Son
    has reconciled the world to himself
    and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;
    through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,

    and I absolve you from your sins
    in the name of the Father, + and of the Son,
    and of the Holy Spirit.


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 02:33:38 PM »
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  • You should post the old by it for easier comparison :cool:


    Offline Daegus

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    « Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 03:05:46 PM »
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  • It really hasn't changed much.

    The problem with NO confessions doesn't actually lie on the way that sins are absolved, but rather, by the questionable nature of the priest's ordination. If the "priest" isn't actually a priest at all, he has no power to absolve sins, or perform any ecclesiastical (I think that's the right word..) task for that matter.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 03:09:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Daegus
    It really hasn't changed much.

    The problem with NO confessions doesn't actually lie on the way that sins are absolved, but rather, by the questionable nature of the priest's ordination. If the "priest" isn't actually a priest at all, he has no power to absolve sins, or perform any ecclesiastical (I think that's the right word..) task for that matter.


    I agree with that. But I've always wondered what would happen if you confess a sin and the priest doesn't believe its a sin, and doesn't forgive you for 'it', is it forgiven?

    Offline Daegus

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    « Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 06:19:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Daegus
    It really hasn't changed much.

    The problem with NO confessions doesn't actually lie on the way that sins are absolved, but rather, by the questionable nature of the priest's ordination. If the "priest" isn't actually a priest at all, he has no power to absolve sins, or perform any ecclesiastical (I think that's the right word..) task for that matter.


    I agree with that. But I've always wondered what would happen if you confess a sin and the priest doesn't believe its a sin, and doesn't forgive you for 'it', is it forgiven?


    If he's a valid priest, has the correct matter, form and is a proper minister with the intention to do what the Church does, then it does not matter what he believes as your sins will be forgiven, provided that you have the appropriate dispositions.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 06:22:03 PM »
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  • Thanks Daegus!

    Offline Daegus

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    « Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 06:24:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Thanks Daegus!


    You're welcome. When the appropriate minister of a Sacrament (i.e. a priest in most cases) uses the correct matter and form, his intention to do what the Church does is presumed. He doesn't have to believe in anything or deny anything. As long as the matter, form and intention of an appropriate minister is there, the Sacrament is valid. (And I say appropriate minister because a layperson cannot celebrate the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar, for instance)
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 08:21:09 PM »
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  • When I went to confession in the Novus Ordo (one of the few) I don't recall ever hearing the words you wrote prior to the "I absolve you..."

    I generally tried to go to this one priest who seemed to try his best in many issues and he was generally a good confessor and gave good advice.  While I didn't think it mattered at the time, he was ordained in the late 1950s.  He wasn't very excited about the Novus Ordo, but he did confession in the traditional rite.  I don't think he did so out of any sense of disobedience; I truly don't think he even realized that there was any change in the sacrament.

    Other priests I remember would, after I said the Act of Contrition say immediately, "I absolve you..."  I had always understood that this was the extent of the form.


    Offline Charles

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    « Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 10:19:49 PM »
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  • But what of the average NO parishioner who isn't aware of these possibilities ? Invalid ordination, lack of true intent by a priest, etc.

    Would God deny pardon to these sinners who leave the confessional believing they have received the Sacrament ?

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 06:56:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charles
    But what of the average NO parishioner who isn't aware of these possibilities ? Invalid ordination, lack of true intent by a priest, etc.

    Would God deny pardon to these sinners who leave the confessional believing they have received the Sacrament ?


    I believe that this is the kind of question that we cannot know for certain the answer.  In this, only God can judge the true disposition of the penitent.  Forgiveness should not be assumed.  

    This is this kind of questioning, I think, that caused so many other problems.

    The concept of "invincible ignorance", for example, evolving from the certain doctrine that a lack of knowledge of a particular doctrine on the part of a Christian will not damn a soul to a sort of "get out of jail free card" in which the whole of humanity is saved through ignorance of the True God.  

    Another example is the New Religion's doctrine that aborted babies most certainly go to heaven.

    We have to recall that, while God is perfectly merciful He is also perfectly just.  Perhaps God will give such a Penitent some level of grace due to his own true disposition with regards to his sins (as He does in the case of a perfect contrition), but the priest cannot give to the penitent what he himself does not have to give--and that is true absolution from sins.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 07:06:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    When I went to confession in the Novus Ordo (one of the few) I don't recall ever hearing the words you wrote prior to the "I absolve you..."

    I generally tried to go to this one priest who seemed to try his best in many issues and he was generally a good confessor and gave good advice.  While I didn't think it mattered at the time, he was ordained in the late 1950s.  He wasn't very excited about the Novus Ordo, but he did confession in the traditional rite.  I don't think he did so out of any sense of disobedience; I truly don't think he even realized that there was any change in the sacrament.

    Other priests I remember would, after I said the Act of Contrition say immediately, "I absolve you..."  I had always understood that this was the extent of the form.


    My understanding is that the words "I absolve you..." are the necessary form. The words before that are supposed to be used under Church law, but omitting them wouldn't invalidate the sacrament.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 07:08:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charles
    But what of the average NO parishioner who isn't aware of these possibilities ? Invalid ordination, lack of true intent by a priest, etc.

    Would God deny pardon to these sinners who leave the confessional believing they have received the Sacrament ?


    We should remember that the Church teaches that sins can be forgiven through perfect contrition and if the penitent plans to get to confession as soon as possible. In the case you cite, the penitent obviously has the intent to go to confession, as he just did. Even if the priest was invalidly ordained, if the penitent is truly sorry for his sins for love of God, I don't see how God could deny him sanctifying grace under perfect contrition.

    Offline Nishant

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    « Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 08:54:40 AM »
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  • But in the sacrament of reconciliation, it is the common teaching of theologians that imperfect contrition suffices for the forgiveness of sins. That is part of the grace conferred ex opere operato through the sacrament. Also, I think it is held that we cannot have a moral certainty that we do in fact have perfect contrition. That's why the traditional teaching of the Church is that no one dare ought to receive the Holy Eucharist without sacramental confession, even if he may have made an act of perfect contrition.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 09:08:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant2011
    But in the sacrament of reconciliation, it is the common teaching of theologians that imperfect contrition suffices for the forgiveness of sins. That is part of the grace conferred ex opere operato through the sacrament. Also, I think it is held that we cannot have a moral certainty that we do in fact have perfect contrition. That's why the traditional teaching of the Church is that no one dare ought to receive the Holy Eucharist without sacramental confession, even if he may have made an act of perfect contrition.


    Correct, sins are forgiven with imperfect contrition within the sacrament of confession. What we are talking about here is an invalidly ordained priest, hence there is no sacrament. Therefore perfect contrition, in that case, would still absolve the penitent's sin.

    Offline Charles

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    « Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 05:13:49 PM »
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  • Good enough, thanks to both.