Author Topic: New doctor of the Church?  (Read 9438 times)

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Offline Quasimodo

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New doctor of the Church?
« on: February 23, 2015, 03:12:29 PM »
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  • Francis made Gregory of Narek a Dr of the Church. He's a St of the Armenian Church. Was he a monophysite? Was he ever considered a Catholic saint in the past? I can't find any solid answers. I wonder if he's the first non Catholic Dr of the Church.

    Offline GGMoreno

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 03:21:33 PM »
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  • I too have looked for information, but cannot find any. By the end of 10th century, canonizations were already on the books. Yet, no evidence on Gregory's canonization.


    Offline CathMomof7

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 02:06:53 PM »
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  • Not sure is Gregory of Narek is important enough to be a Doctor of the Church, but this choice signals something much more interesting.

    He is Armenian.  He is important to Armenians.  The Armenian Catholics are of the Eastern Rite, of which Jorge has a special fondness.

    Whatever his reasons for doing this, I am sure they are ecumenical in nature.  

    What significance this will have on the future of the Church, I don't know either.



    Offline Mithrandylan

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 02:16:33 PM »
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  • It is unusual for a Doctor of the Church's religious affiliation to be unknown. Usually they're quite clearly Catholic, but a little novelty never hurt anyone. Right?
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com

    Offline Quasimodo

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 09:42:55 PM »
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  • http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/02/24/the-first-commandment-is-first-for-a-reason/

    Apparently he was miaphysite. A non Catholic heretic yesterday, a Catholic saint and Dr of the Church today. I wonder if Luther will become a Dr of the Church and equipollent saint in 2017.


    Offline GGMoreno

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 10:18:50 PM »
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  • As a skeptic, I looked into the Roman Martyroloy from the 18th century and from 1914. There is no sign of any Gregory Narek in the Roman Martyrology at those times. However there is sign of him in the 2005 Roman Martyrology.

    If this is the case that he was never on recognized as a saint by the Church, only to be subtly placed in the Martyrology post Vatican II, then Ms. Barnhardt is right with her assertion that he is not Catholic.

    As I said before, official canonizations were already well established (803 AD) by the time of his death in 1003 AD, and if he was not canonized or even recognized as a martyr till 2005, then Bergoglio is cooking up something.

    Offline Cantarella

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 01:09:40 AM »
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  •  So Pope Francis declares a non-Catholic a "Doctor of the Church"? mmmm  :scratchchin:

    Quote

    Yesterday, on February 23, it was reported that Pope Francis formally declared Gregory of Narek to be a Doctor of the Universal Church. Gregory of Narek was an Armenian priest, monk, and poet who is greatly revered by Armenians but virtually unknown otherwise. So far as I can tell, he is the first and only non-Catholic among only 36 doctors of the church. He lived and died out of communion with the Catholic Church, and most likely was an adherent of the Miaphysite heresy. Traditionally, a doctor of the church is chosen only among recognized Catholic saints.

    Is this a problem? Well, the words of the Catholic Encyclopedia are somewhat consoling:


    "It is not in any way an 'ex cathedra' decision, nor does it even amount to a declaration that no error is to be found in the teaching of the Doctor. It is, indeed, well known that the very greatest of them are not wholly immune from error."

    And yet, and yet .... this is setting a potentially disastrous precedent. Gregory of Narek may have been a man of extraordinary sanctity; he may have been a great teacher; and it may be a laudable thing that his works become known to the larger Christian world outside of the Armenian community. But if a man is declared a "Doctor of the Universal Church", the faithful have the right to assume that he is, at the very least, a Catholic. Furthermore, as Ann Barnhardt drives home, granting this title to a non-Catholic Armenian priest sends an unmistakable message to all the faithful: heresies that amount to attacks on the First Commandment are no big deal; heresy itself is no big deal; and schism is no big deal.

    At this point in this sorry pontificate, given what we know about Pope Francis and his many expressions of religious indifferentism, it is safe to assume that he has an ulterior motive. Bypassing what must be dozens if not hundreds of qualified orthodox Catholics (Dom Prosper Gueranger is already de facto a doctor of this stature), Pope Francis instead chose an obscure mystic who died outside of the Church and presumably held to the heresy of his co-religionists at the time. Why this choice? Let me make a little prediction: By this act, Pope Francis is preparing the faithful for the canonization of the first non-Catholic "saint".

    https://culbreath.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/pope-francis-declares-a-non-catholic-a-doctor-of-the-church/


    By this act, Pope Francis is preparing the faithful for the canonization of the first non-Catholic "saint". The heresy of Indifferentism is the ulterior, political motive, of such maneuver; This, of course, brought by the Modernist denial of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus exclusivist dogma, once again.

    Lord have mercy.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    So Pope Francis declares a non-Catholic a "Doctor of the Church"? mmmm  :scratchchin:

    Quote

    Yesterday, on February 23, it was reported that Pope Francis formally declared Gregory of Narek to be a Doctor of the Universal Church. Gregory of Narek was an Armenian priest, monk, and poet who is greatly revered by Armenians but virtually unknown otherwise. So far as I can tell, he is the first and only non-Catholic among only 36 doctors of the church.


    As per the bolded section of the quoted, "Uhm, no, he's not."  Bergoglio can say whatever he wants, but there are no and never will be any non-Catholic doctors of the Church.  Nor have there been nor will there ever be any female or lay Doctors of the Church either.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 08:05:39 AM »
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  • Bergoglio needs to be driven from the Vatican by an angry mob of Catholics wielding torches, pitchforks, and bull-whips.  And he can take Papa Emeritus with him.  St. Pius X would have physically beaten him out the front door never to be heard from again.


    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 08:46:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Bergoglio needs to be driven from the Vatican by an angry mob of Catholics wielding torches, pitchforks, and bull-whips.  And he can take Papa Emeritus with him.  St. Pius X would have physically beaten him out the front door never to be heard from again.



    If only Catholics had the wisdom and fortitude to do so, but I take it there's not been a peep of opposition?

    Quote
    By this act, Pope Francis is preparing the faithful for the canonization of the first non-Catholic "saint".


    Would that be Luther?

    GGMoreno, superb detective work.  Thank you for confirmation.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #10 on: February 25, 2015, 10:29:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: GGMoreno
    As a skeptic, I looked into the Roman Martyroloy from the 18th century and from 1914. There is no sign of any Gregory Narek in the Roman Martyrology at those times. However there is sign of him in the 2005 Roman Martyrology.

    If this is the case that he was never on recognized as a saint by the Church, only to be subtly placed in the Martyrology post Vatican II, then Ms. Barnhardt is right with her assertion that he is not Catholic.

    As I said before, official canonizations were already well established (803 AD) by the time of his death in 1003 AD, and if he was not canonized or even recognized as a martyr till 2005, then Bergoglio is cooking up something.


    I agree with you. The announcement report on Rorate Caeli stated :

    Quote
    For the record: A new Doctor of the Church

    As reported today on the Vatican Bollettino, Pope Francis has decided to elevate Gregory of Narek (c. 950 - c. 1005) perhaps the greatest of Armenian sacred writers, sometimes called "the Armenian Pindar", as Doctor of the Church. A translation of his Book of Lamentations can be found here.

    Although not mentioned in the Bollettino, this act also apparently serves as an equipollent canonization of Gregory, who was already venerated as a Saint in both the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Armenian Catholic Church.


    It is interesting to note that Gregory lived at a time when the Armenian Church, to which he belonged, was not formally in communion with Rome and Constantinople. However, as those interested in the extremely tangled history of Christianity in the first millennium are well aware, one cannot always speak straightforwardly of "schism" and "heresy" when dealing with the theological and ecclesiastical divisions of Christendom in that era.(Rorate Caeli 2/23/15)


    I'm willing to bet Francis will use this "new Doctor" as an excuse to approve the married clergy in the Roman Rite or Communion for the divorced and remarried (or both).
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline GGMoreno

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 10:46:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora


    I'm willing to bet Francis will use this "new Doctor" as an excuse to approve the married clergy in the Roman Rite or Communion for the divorced and remarried (or both).


    Excellent points! I also think this will be the conduit to ease into a false ecumenism pact with other Eastern Churches. This act of making Gregory Narek a doctor is a sign of "good will"--a step forward in the "right" direction.  

    There are so many parallels between John XXIII and Francis.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 11:00:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Quasimodo
    http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/02/24/the-first-commandment-is-first-for-a-reason/

    Apparently he was miaphysite. A non Catholic heretic yesterday, a Catholic saint and Dr of the Church today. I wonder if Luther will become a Dr of the Church and equipollent saint in 2017.


    You may have nailed it! That would not surprise come October (or before). In her prophecies, Blessed Anna Katharina Emmerick talks about the false church the "two popes" are building.


    Quote
    "I saw that many pastors allowed themselves to be taken up with ideas that were dangerous to the Church. They were building a great, strange, and extravagant Church. Everyone was to be admitted in it in order to be united and have equal rights: Evangelicals, Catholics, sects of every description. Such was to be the new Church ... But God had other designs. "


    And again

    Quote
    "I saw also the relationship between two popes ... I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city of Rome. The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness...


    And again
    Quote

    "I saw again  the strange big church that was being built there in Rome. There was nothing holy in it. I saw this just as I saw a movement led by Ecclesiastics to which contributed angels, saints, and other Christians. But there in the strange big church all the work was being done mechanically according to set rules and formulae. Everything was being done according to human reason ...I saw all sorts of people, things, doctrines, and opinions. There was something proud, presumptuous, and violent about it, and they seemed very successful. I di not see a single Angel nor a single saint helping in the work. But far away in the background, I saw the seat of the cruel people armed with spears, and I saw a laughing figure which said: " Do build it as solid as you can; we will pull it to the ground."
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline BTNYC

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #13 on: February 25, 2015, 11:13:35 AM »
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  • One longs for the days when the naming of a new Doctor of the Church was done for the good of the Church and the edification of Catholics, rather than as token gestures and diplomatic expediencies proferred to non-Catholics (first feminists and now schismatics).

    And I can't really see how this is going to be regarded as a "positive" gesture by the Chalcedonian eastern schismatics like the Greeks and the Russians (who make up the overhwelming majority of the schismatic apostolic churches). Indeed, if the reactions I've seen coming from various Greeks and Russians on the internet are any indication, this act will only confirm them in their belief that "Old Rome" has fallen into schism and heresy. It would seem they're more filled with zeal to defend the Fourth Ecumenical Council than most "Catholics" (most of whom seem to have never even heard of it).

    Well, we've learned this much anyway - "Acceptance" of the non-dogmatic Second Vatican Council is a non-negotiable essential for being in "full communion" with Rome. Acceptance of the (very) dogmatic Council of Chalcedon? Not so much, apparently.  

    Offline BTNYC

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    New doctor of the Church?
    « Reply #14 on: February 25, 2015, 01:00:30 PM »
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  • Ever hear the old expression "you know you're good when the devil hates you?" Well, something of the reverse seems to be in effect here, because, as with nearly all of Francis' novelties and scandals, the people cheering the loudest seem to be the ones with the least concern for the good of the Church.

    Case in point, over at Fishreekers, this latest incident has received the Impy Seal of Approval (look upon that avatar at your own risk - unless you're in need of a fast-acting emitic):

    Quote from: Impy

    This is wonderful news!!!  And I will be purchasing a copy of St. Narek's Book of Lamentations.

    CounterRevolutionary, I hope this is a consolation and a confirmation for you that we really are one Church and that one need not leave the Western Church to drink from Eastern sources.

    Speaking for myself, I want it all.  





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