Author Topic: My CAF Kamikaze mission (Read 3629 times)

BTNYC · « **on:** July 24, 2013, 08:20:46 AM »

You know, it's been bothering me that I never stuck around long enough at CAF to actually get banned for being Catholic...

So that's what I decided to do... Actually, let me amend that: I set out (starting yesterday) just to sign back into CAF (for the first time in half a year) and see how far I could get just being Catholic, boldly and unashamedly.

Well, I've garnered for myself 4 infractions for "uncharitable posts" and "contempt" for Islam by using the word "Mohammedan" to describe its practitioners.

All 4 infractions (much like my original one back in February for calling Martin Luther a heretic) came from one moderator - Eric Hilbert, who seems to have taken quite a shine to me.

I will reproduce the infraction notices below. I do this not to spread ill-will or calumny against a particular forum or moderator, but to show just how serious a matter this is - a "Catholic" forum chastising and silencing a poster simply for being Catholic.

To start things off, here is the original infraction from February (my original posts are bolded):

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Uncharitable Post(s)
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Members are not allowed to be disrespectful of anyone's faith or religion, whether it is Catholicism or not. If a member is disrespectful, he will generally be counseled first and suspended if he persists in disrespectful postings.

If the nature of an initial posting is blatantly disrespectful to any religion (e.g., "the pope is the anti-Christ" or "Rome is the Whore of Babylon" or "Muslims are terrorists"), suspension may be immediate and without prior counseling.

Members are free to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the doctrines and dogmas of both Catholicism and non-Catholic religions. However, all discourse must be civil and charitable.

Guidelines
For both Catholic and non-Catholic posters:
It is acceptable to question the doctrine or dogma of another's faith
It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual's beliefs
Bringing up historical controversies peculiar to a particular religion should be done cautiously*
It is acceptable to discuss the effect the incident had on current policy or practice.
It is acceptable to seek the truth vs. commonly-held beliefs or conventional wisdom about actual events.
It is fallacious reasoning to use embarrassing incidents to claim that they "prove" a particular religion is false.
Expecting members of any Church to defend or answer for the excesses or extremism of bodies that have broken with it is a technique that has no merit and can't be defended.

-------

This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10354454

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjohnson
Be careful when you use polemics, it's best to be correct. You're possibly confusing Calvin and Luther.

Luther held that salivation is received by God's grace though faith, and that a saved person can reject or 'fall away' from it.

From Luther:

It is therefore necessary to know and to teach that when holy people, aside from the fact that they still possess and feel original sin and daily repent and strive against it, fall into open sin (as David fell into adultery, murder, and blasphemy), faith and the Spirit have departed from them. This is so because the Holy Spirit does not permit sin to rule and gain the upper hand in such a way that sin is committed, but the Holy Spirit represses and restrains it so that it does not do what it wishes. If sin does what it wishes, the Holy Spirit and faith are not present, for St. John says, 'No one born of God commits sin' (Smalcald Articles III.3.43-45).

Here you can see the Lutheran continual need for daily repentance.

I have no doubt that Luther (and Calvin, and Zwingli, etc) can be quoted to refute some of their own errors. The fact is that Luther defended his doctrine received "from the holy ghost while on the privy in the tower" by repeatedly encouraging his followers to "sin on and sin boldly," saying that a thousand murders and adulteries would not cost a man his salvation. His outrageous words merely carry this false doctrine to its logical end, no matter how selective he was about it in practice.

Fodder for another thread, but the man gave every indication that he was demonically possessed. That he contradicted himself from one day to the next is not at all surprising.
All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

BTNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:27:58 AM »

Then we have the first of the 4 new infractions. In this thread - get this - some confused young man was going around saying how edifying he found it as a Catholic to refer to God as "Allah" and pray a Mohammedan chaplet. Naturally, I gave him some fraternal correction and a bit of cultural / linguistic perspective (explaining that my background is Maltese, and the Maltese word for "God" is "Alla," but that I referred to God as "God" when speaking English because there is no good reason to do otherwise).

In any event, all my posts were removed because I referred to the Mohammedan religion by the name our Catholic patrimony has given us. Here is the infraction (which reproduced my final post in the thread):

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Contempt for another religion
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Contempt for another religion
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This infraction is worth 20 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11017049

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Thaddeus
Okay, first: Stop saying "Mohammedan", because unless I'm wrong, that's a very prejudice term, Even the Vatican website is respectful enough to say "Muslim", well actually they spell it "Moslem" I thing for some reason. Typo, something?

I will not stop. "Mohammedan" was used with no qualms for 13 centuries by countless Catholic popes, saints and martyrs... and my pious Maltese grandfather, I might add. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me, the Vatican website and 4 decades of PC ecuмenical niceties notwithstanding. I'm sorry you find traditional Catholic language so disagreeable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Thaddeus

Now you speak of borrowing the Hadith, all other Islamic prayers,
Mormon stuff, THAT is what happens when no line is drawn and
you're keep it from being drawn. Also, I don't appreciate the Straw-
man argument.

So where do you draw the line? Halfway through the shahada? The Mohammedan chaplet is kosher (or "halal," if you prefer), but the hadiths are not? Islamic spirituality is beautiful and useful but Mormon spirituality is not? From where I'm standing, both are false religions, both came centuries after Christ, both were founded by delusional polygamists who fancied themselves "prophets." So the lines you're drawing and failing to draw seem pretty arbitrarily chosen to me.

I did not claim you read the Hadiths, but I did posit it as consistent with your usage of Mohammedan prayers. Again, that a line is drawn between the two seems untenable and arbitrary. And simply calling a line of argumentation a "strawman" does not make it so.

And please answer this (if for no other reason than to assuage the fears of anyone who might go camping or hiking with you some day): If you have unlimited access to clean water, why are you drinking filtered poison?
All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

BTNYC · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:32:40 AM »

My next infraction is from the same thread, as you can see, it specifically cites my statement "There is absolutely no good to be found in the religion of Mohammed" (I find it interesting that he clipped that sentence to better suit his agenda, as my full statement there was: "There is absolutely no good to be found in the religion of Mohammed that cannot be found in the Catholic Church.")

Here we are:

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Uncharitable Post(s)
-------

Quote:
There is absolutely no good to be found in the religion of Mohammed

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This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11014915

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Thaddeus
You make a fair point about using Allah when speaking English, but other than in this I would speak (or attempt to speak) in Arabic when using my Tasbih (the content of which is not exclusive to Islam).

Also, even though Arabic isn't the divine language, it still certainly is beautiful. Take the phrase "La illaha illa Allah", just a series of al' and 'la sounds and we get that elegant Truth that there is no god except God. VERY POETIC

The gold mask of Tutankhamun is very beautiful. But it doesn't belong in a Catholic sanctuary.

The Popl Vuh is very poetic, but it doesn't belong in a Catholic liturgical reading.

There is a venerable old saying in the Church that can even be found in the Catechism: "Lex orandi, lex credendi," The law of prayer is the law of belief. It means just that - The manner in which we pray will inform what and how we believe.

Thus, to be Catholic, we must pray like Catholics.

There is absolutely no good to be found in the religion of Mohammed that cannot be found in the Catholic Church. If you had a choice between clear, clean drinking water and a spring that contained, in addition to water, a certain amount of poison, why would you slake your thirst in the latter over the former? Even if the spring contained only trace amounts of poison... why choose it over clean water?

The Islamic chaplet to which you refer is essentially a Mohammedan copy of the ancient Christian Kombologion (100 beads, used to mark 100 repetitions of the Jesus Prayer). This is a genuine Christian prayer of ancient and venerable pedigree. Why not incorporate it into your prayer life rather than an anti-trinitarian bastardization of it?

"There is no God but God" can, in the abstract, be stated in a perfectly orthodox Christian sense. So why should we not use it? Because it is a specifically islamic formulation, formulated by and for men who view God as "one" in a sense that totally rejects the Holy Dogma of the Trinity. Therefore it should be avoided altogether and not incorporated into Christian prayer - Lex orandi, lex credendi.

Talk to a good, orthodox Catholic priest about this as soon as possible (emphasis on "good" and "orthodox").

All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

BTNYC · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:35:58 AM »

The third of the new infractions is again for use of the term "Mohammedan."

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Comtempt for another religion
-------

Quote:
Mohammedan

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This infraction is worth 20 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11016112

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkoss236
While true in the grand scheme of Truth, they may have good ways of expressing themselves that we can use ourselves in a perfectly orthodox way, just as we've done in relation to Protestants in the past. The example I'm specifically referring to right now is of the Advent Wreath, which I believe was originally put together by a Lutheran church and then spread to other Protestant churches, and because of the orthodox and beautifully expressive nature of the wreath, Catholics too have adopted it. Similarly, if Muslims have a beautiful way to express a truth about God that we too believe, why can't we use it? Because it originated from Muslims? So what?! The time of year for some Christian holidays, such as All Saints Day and Christmas, were set as what they are to have a Christian replacement for pagan holidays. Do you mean to say that this shouldn't have been done because celebrations on those days were originally pagan? Truth is truth, and just because another religion came up with a way to express a truth that we share with them doesn't mean we can't use it.

"There is no god but God." Is this not the first commandment?

At the risk of spending too much time bogging the discussion down with entertaining obfuscations, I'll just go ahead and point out the following...

Decorative Christmas folk customs like advent wreaths are a wholly different matter than incorporating Mohammedan prayers and formulae into Catholic prayer.

The Church declaring perfectly orthodox Christian feast days to counter lingering pagan celebrations is also a completely different matter.

"There is no god but God" is not the First Commandment. It is the Islamic "Shahada," their declaration of faith, and it is immediately followed by "and Mohammed is his prophet." The first commandment is "I am the LORD thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me." They are not the same, despite containing a superficial similarity. As Chesterton, the "apostle of common sense" pointed out, to say a thing is "like" another thing is as much a statement of difference as it is of similarity. The mere fact you so blithely conflated the two redounds to my point - there is a danger in laymen playing with private syncretism willy-nilly, not the least of which being indifferentism.

The First Commandment is a declaration by God Almighty Himself that we are not to adore anything other than (or in addition to) Himself. The shahada is an Islamic formula required to be recited by converts to the Mohammedan religion, which was formulated by men in direct opposition of the Dogma of the Trinity, which is particularly abhorrent to Mohammedans. And this is what makes Christian use of this phrase so inadvisable - the shahada is an Islamic formulation of the uniqueness and oneness of God in the Islamic sense which is uttered by Mohammedans as a repudiation not only of polytheism but also of the Trinity. Why on earth would a Christian want to flirt with a formulation that is so tainted - especially when there is nothing at all lacking in Catholic theology, mysticism, devotion and dogma that you would need to do it???

And where does one draw the line? Because some American and western European Catholics use Advent wreaths, should we take to quoting the Hadiths and reciting Mohammedan prayers because of some incidental, superficial truth they may express? Why stop there? The OP seems to think borrowing from the Mormons is beyond the pale because they're polytheists. But why? Why is that error sufficient to poison the well, but not Islamic anti-Trinitarian, anti-Incarnation, and anti-Crucifixion errors? Seems awfully arbitrary to me.

And let me take it a bit further and play "devil's advocate" in a more literal sense than I'm ordinarily comfortable with: According to their Wikipedia article, the "church of satan" condemns, among other things: pretentiousness, solipsism, and "harming little children." That seems like good advice. Should I therefore praise the church of satan and incorporate their writings and practices into my own Catholic life because I see occasional, superficial, incidental truths in their cult?

The answer, of course, is "no." And that is all the point I'm making here: Don't wander off to poisonous springs when you have an endless reservoir of pure water at your disposal. I think the metaphor is very apt. The OP attempted to answer it by saying that he would filter the poison out. Of course, this fails to address why anyone with limitless access to clean water would feel the need to drink filtered poison in the first place.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: Lex orandi, lex credendi.

All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

BTNYC · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:41:29 AM »

And finally, just for good measure, Mr Hilbert decided to go way back into my catalogue and infract me for having the unmitigated temerity to question the wisdom of proposing this:
as being appropriate for use in a Catholic Mass.

I couldn't make this up if I tried:

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Uncharitable Post(s)
-------

I HIGHLY SUGGEST you review the forum rules before you post again.

-------

This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10396700

Quote:
What utter dreck.

No thank you.
All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

Jehanne · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:45:00 AM »

Don't post there anymore:

http://unamsanctamecclesiamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/03/catholic-answers-forum-truth-or.html

BTNYC · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2013, 08:48:06 AM »

so there we have it. Severe chastisements from the petty tyrant Little Mahonys on CAF.

I'm honestly surprised they haven't gone after me for this: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11017020#post11017020

Wherein I reproduced the Latin Good Friday conversion prayer and Leviticus 26.

Well, I'll keep you all abreast. Until then, my fellow Catholics, be sure to read your Hadiths and give praise to Allah and his prophet (pbuh).

Sigh...

Kyrie eleison.

BTNYC · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2013, 09:53:07 AM »

Time to just yank the band-aid off.

I decided to post this in the Mohammedan thread:

Today, 10:46 am
BTNYC
Junior Member Join Date: October 9, 2012
Posts: 159
Religion: Catholic

Re: For Catholics who seem to hate the word "Allah"...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, you brave CAF moderators, for having the courage to boldly:

- Silence debate

- Punish traditional Catholic thought

- Impede the charitable act of fraternal correction

- Anathematize the language of our Catholic patrimony

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: Those who would sacrifice truth for charity possess neither.

"Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves. "

BTNYC · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2013, 09:55:17 AM »

Boy, they're really auditing me:

Today, 10:48 am
Michael Francis
Moderator Join Date: June 23, 2005
Location: Apologetics, Sacred Scripture
Posts: 32,187
Religion: Catholic of course!

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear BTNYC,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Agenda of contempt for post concilar liturgy and clergy
-------
You have been a member here long enough to know that these kinds of posts violate the rules and guidelines found in the link in my signature line below.

Since your post history makes it plain that you have no intention of abiding by these rules and guidelines your account is now closed.
-------

This infraction is worth 500 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=11016163

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkoss236
I whole-heartedly disagree.

The attitude and what Bible translators attempt to do is to make the message understandable in the vernacular. To do this, one has to try to relate the message in modern language without losing the original context. This, especially given the time, cultural, and linguistic differences, is very hard to do.

Ah yes, the "vernacular," that nebulous, pie in the sky platonic ideal of the post Conciliar miasma... just what the doctor ordered for the evils of the Douay Rheims, and its fuddy-duddy "archaic" language (that Bill Shakespeare guy was a big offender in this area too).

Isn't that how we ended up with soul-enriching gems like "And also with you" and "free us from all anxiety"? Mmm-mm, vernaculicious!

Continuing the carrying of erroneous premises to their logical conclusions, here's some "Vernacular" for y'all headz to peep:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FC2KGU/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000FC2KGU&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20

Let's slap an imprimatur on this sucker ASAP... (@CardinalMahony?)
All the best,
Catholic Answers Forums

Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Agenda of contempt for post concillar liturgy and clergy & Willful disregard for forum rules.

This change will be lifted: Jul 24, '15, 10:00 am

Oh I don't expect it to be lifted after they read my most recent post...

BTNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:03:40 AM »

Wait I just notice: The infraction will be lifted "Jul 24, '15, 10:00 am"!!!

2015???

What is this, a penance?! Should I kneel in the CAF vestibule for two years in a public act of humility?? Should I ask the Elect to pray for me as they go through the doors?

What a monumental joke.

TheKnightVigilant · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:09:54 AM »

The forum is plainly anti-Catholic. I've seen braindead atheists rant venomously against Catholicism ad-nauseum there without a single finger being raised against them, while Catholics who so much as fail to show the proper amount of respect supposedly due to false religions or call for a return to pre-Vatican-II Catholicism are routinely punished or banned.

BTNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:12:22 AM »

Annnnd......

Banned.

Mission accomplished. I will wear it with pride.

TheKnightVigilant · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:17:24 AM »

Wonder if I'd be banned if I opened a thread containing direct quotes from Popes and Saints concerning the Mohammedans or the protestants.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:18:11 AM »

Eric Hilbert is the same sorry excuse for a moderator that banned me for just asking why I was giving an infraction. Apparently, asking why you've received one and what the consequences of one are is a "refusal to follow moderator directions".

Hilbert really shouldn't be a mod, he's as unfair as they come.

Charlemagne · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2013, 10:22:56 AM »

Why even waste your time raising your blood pressure by attempting to engage those people? They don't want the truth. They're very comfortable in their manmade religion. Let the dead bury their dead.

EDIT: Content