Author Topic: Mortal sin, scapular and hell (Read 4966 times)

amariec · « **on:** January 21, 2010, 04:00:41 PM »

I listened to the sermon on hell that was posted and it sparked a question.

If one dies with a mortal sin while wearing a scapular and follows the guidelines associated with it (recitation of the rosary daily, to be pure observing the 6th and 9th commandments, and being enrolled in the scapular confraternity) What happens? Would hell still be their destination?

Raoul76 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2010, 04:35:00 PM »

I assume the scapular would result in their having perfect contrition.

How does one enroll in the scapular confraternity?

Jamie · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2010, 04:56:30 PM »

Quote from: amariec

I listened to the sermon on hell that was posted and it sparked a question.

If one dies with a mortal sin while wearing a scapular and follows the guidelines associated with it (recitation of the rosary daily, to be pure observing the 6th and 9th commandments, and being enrolled in the scapular confraternity) What happens? Would hell still be their destination?

I would be inclined to think that the person who has a mortal sin and is wearing a scapular and follows the rules will somehow manage to make a confession to a priest prior to death - in other words, Our Lady will ensure a priest is near.

My old traditional priest told me a story about a young man who wore the scapular and followed the rules, but fell into sin and had no contrition. He was killed in an accident which decapitated him and his scapular was ripped off his neck in the accident. In other words, if you wear the scapular you must still try hard to follow the rules and take regular confession. When a person begins to treat it like some kind of good luck charm, it loses its efficacy.

Jamie · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2010, 04:57:18 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

I assume the scapular would result in their having perfect contrition.

How does one enroll in the scapular confraternity?

All traditional priests know the prayers to enroll you in the scapular. It is a very simple ceremony that can be done after Mass or anytime your priest is nearby.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:11:22 PM »

Oh, you're one of those who insist on frequent Communion and confession in a time with rampant heresies, Jamie? I see that a lot. Kind of strikes me as the opposite of what Christ advised we should do during the abomination of desolation, but to each his own.

"During his captivity in the tower of Seville, an Arian bishop was sent to St. Hermenegild during the Easter Season, but he would not accept Holy Communion from the hands of that prelate.[1] King Leovigild ordered him to be killed, and the axemen found him to be resigned to this end. He was martyred on April 13, 585."

We don't see a lot of that spirit around these days, unfortunately. Everything is about the Mass, the Mass, the Mass -- almost no one cares about the faith.

I guess I am already enrolled in the scapular as I received mine after baptism. At the time I didn't realize my priest was a heretic. I'm going to stick to my story that the scapular either keeps you out of mortal sin, brings you perfect contrition if you have mortally sinned, or that the person dying will rip it off.

Jamie · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:23:14 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Oh, you're one of those who insist on frequent Communion and confession in a time with rampant heresies, Jamie? I see that a lot. Kind of strikes me as the opposite of what Christ advised we should do during the abomination of desolation, but to each his own.

Your argument is not relevant. There are three SSPX priests in my country all of whom come to my city every Sunday for Mass. I do not believe any of them to be heretics (nor the SSPX in general) so, in this time filled with heresy and desolation in the Church, I am fortunate to have the option of frequent confession and Holy Communion. I also have a retired priest who lived 5 minutes from me who says all of the sacraments traditionally and has a daily private Mass in his home as well as private Mass on Sundays.

I will just presume that you aren't suggesting I ought to avoid Mass because some priests are heretics when I am sure that the ones I know are not.

It is very convenient that you have managed to decree every priest who doesn't follow your opinion a heretic - you need not go anywhere on Sundays.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:28:32 PM »

:whistleblower:

Raoul, stay on topic please

Raoul76 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:47:32 PM »

I have a feeling I'm about to get kicked off this site. Maybe I'll just not post anywhere but in the Crisis section, if that is agreeable to the webmasters.

I'll just say that I thought I was on topic because EVERYTHING depends on our approach.

Someone who is in Novus Ordo and believes the scapular will protect them from hell is in a different situation from other Catholics, and so on. Our varying situations ( VII, SSPX, liberal sedevacantist like SJB, sedevacantist home-aloner like myself, Feeneyite sedevacantist home-aloner like CM ) bring up different angles from which to look at Our Lady's promise that those who wear it shall not suffer hell fire.

I mean, if I saw someone at a clown mass wearing a scapular, certain that they were not going to hell, it may make me doubt the promise. That is why I said that the scapular will bring perfect contrition ( contrition over having been in the Novus Ordo ). Or else such a person will fall into sin and not be eligible for the promise.

But I cannot reconcile my position with Our Lady's promise by saying you will be saved wearing the scapular no matter what you do. I doubt that was her intention either.

CM · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2010, 06:02:53 PM »

Sacramentals are just that - sacramentals, not SACRAMENTS. They do not cause grace, but they remind us of the necessary dispositions with which we may merit or obtain grace.

So a person who wears a sacramental while disdaining or otherwise neglecting the correct dispositions is wearing it in vain.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:05:43 PM »

Ironically, very few people in the Novus Ordo know that they're supposed to be ENROLLED in the Scapular. Very few are actually enrolled.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:13:13 PM »

No, the Scapular is much more than a simple "reminder" of something. It has an efficacy based on the promises of Our Lady. Blessed sacramentals, furthermore, while they do not per say confer any increase in sanctifying grace, can in fact draw special actual graces down on people. And even sacramentals that haven't been blessed can be the occasion for or instrumental to actual grace. So, if one looks upon a crucifix for love, it's the love which brings an increase of grace in the soul, not the crucifix per se, but the crucifix was intrumental to inspiring it. Sacraments confer grace directly, sacramentals indirectly.

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:36:01 PM »

It says right on the scapular "Whosoever dies wearing this brown scapular shall not suffer eternal fire" which is Our Lady's promise. So unless my will becomes so perverted and malicious as the devils so as to not want to be saved, I am confident that Our Lady will either grant me the grace of true contrition and allow me time to make an act of contrition before I die or provide with the sacraments. She did promise after all. If one merely wears the scapular Our Lady will give that person the grace to start praying more if they do not pray often or at all. Without prayer there is no salvation. Heaven is only for those who pray. IF you wear the scapular EVERY DAY and never take it off (except when bathing or to wash it) she will obtain the grace of prayer for you because just wearing it is a sign of devotion to her, and being a sacramental the scapular is a source of grace that our souls desperately need to WANT salvation.

I wore the scapular for a year and a half, though the only prayers I ever said were on a Sunday and I was 10X the sinner I am now. Now I pray every day and take my faith seriously and dont regulate it to just Mass on Sunday. I give you my word (though you do not and should not need it) that Our Lady will inspire you to pray more even if it's against your nature IF only you wear and continue to wear your scapular.

Oh, and spend the extra few bucks on a good durable one. They're $5 down here and they last longer than those 50cent ones that are just have the image and promise just glued onto the cloth. Mine lasted a year and through 6 months of Taekwondo too! :nunchaku:

CM · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:48:26 PM »

Tae Kwon Do is for ...

Sorry, but I don't like any martial art where you don't use your hands. I'm sure you built a strong body and discipline there though.

And at least strong legs...

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2010, 09:56:49 PM »

Quote from: CM

Tae Kwon Do is for ...

Sorry, but I don't like any martial art where you don't use your hands. I'm sure you built a strong body and discipline there though.

And at least strong legs...

Which show's that you've never visited, let alone BEEN IN, a Taekwondo school and know nothing of the style. But let's get back on the subject. We can open a thread in the bunker if you want to talk about it.

Vladimir · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2010, 11:08:50 PM »

Quote from: amariec

I listened to the sermon on hell that was posted and it sparked a question.

If one dies with a mortal sin while wearing a scapular and follows the guidelines associated with it (recitation of the rosary daily, to be pure observing the 6th and 9th commandments, and being enrolled in the scapular confraternity) What happens? Would hell still be their destination?

I think that Mary would never abandon one of Her true servants and they would be granted either the grace of a perfect contrition or an extension of life so they can be absolved by a priest. I think that anyone who is devoted to Saint Joseph as well as the Holy Virgin is granted the grace of not dying without the Sacraments.