Author Topic: More Excorcists (Read 2309 times)

poche · « **on:** May 24, 2013, 11:42:15 PM »

The Catholic archdiocese in Madrid says it needs more exorcists to help some of its faithful cope with the devil.

An archdiocese spokeswoman said Friday that Madrid only has one exorcist priest and that it is considering a plan to train more. She spoke on condition of anonymity in keeping with archdiocese policy.

"The devil exists. That's a fact," she told The Associated Press.

Only a priest authorized by a bishop can perform an exorcism and the brief rite involves blessings with holy water, prayers and an interrogation of the devil by the exorcist during which the demon is asked to leave the victim.

ReligionenLibertad, a Catholic website, blames the growing secularization of Spanish society for what it calls an increase in people asking for help with their demons.

..
http://news.yahoo.com/madrids-catholic-church-says-needs-exorcists-152041548.html;_ylt=Aii4.DhbWVt5lEziRBjcldsSscB_;_ylu=X3oDMTB1NnVyODczBG1pdAMEcG9zAzEEc2VjA2xuX1JlbGlnaW9uX2dhbA--;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2013, 12:11:08 AM »

.

The problem in Spain is threefold.

Secularization is nothing but the abandonment of the Faith of their fathers.

They have blindly followed the revolution in the Church, the unclean spirit
of Vatican II, which includes the Newmass, and this is closely related to
secularization, but not identical to it.

Finally, the influx of Mohammedans, BACK INTO THE LAND WHERE THEY
HAD BEEN EXPELLED in A.D. 1492, the year when Columbus sailed.

Matt. xii:
43And when an unclean spirit is gone out of a man he walketh through dry
places seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith: I will return into
my house from whence I came out. And coming he findeth it empty, swept,
and garnished. 45Then he goeth, and taketh with him seven other spirits
more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last
state of that man is made worse than the first. So shall it be also to this
wicked generation.

The false god Allah is a devil and Mohammedans are possessed by him
by the millions. No wonder there's a problem in Spain.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2013, 01:46:44 AM »

I think, when it comes to "exorcisms", the problem could be even bigger than we think it is.

I read once in a while threads, articles from websites, or posts in blogs, etc... , and they all seem to miss a very important point. What is it?

I say, is there a danger if an "exorcism" is not done correctly?

And why would I say that?

There are three examples that I can refer to, but for simplicity, I will only mention the one I think is the most famous one: Anneliese Michel.

Please, do not take my words out of context (again), I am not against exorcisms, I am just thinking that if they are done "the wrong way" they could get someone dead.

In such cases, the term "exorcism" would be incorrect, but people seem to use it anyways, I'll use it between quotes fro clarity. My point is that a "well performed exorcism" will never fail, but an "incorrectly performed" one not only could fail, but might kill the person.

How exactly could a Catholic exorcism be "incorrectly performed"?

The Charismatics perform "exorcisms" which resemble what Pentecostals do, and I frankly do not believe they can actually drive demons out of people. The Priest who was involved on the Anneliese Michel's "exorcism" was also involved with the Charismatic Movement. That leads me to believe that "pentecostal methods" where used during Her "exorcism" leading to Her death.

If what I am saying is true, and I am open to the possibility that I am wrong, the problem is bigger than we think.

Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".

What are your thoughts on the matter?

SoldierOfChrist · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:17:31 AM »

Quote from: DoubtingThomas

I think, when it comes to "exorcisms", the problem could be even bigger than we think it is.

I read once in a while threads, articles from websites, or posts in blogs, etc... , and they all seem to miss a very important point. What is it?

I say, is there a danger if an "exorcism" is not done correctly?

And why would I say that?

There are three examples that I can refer to, but for simplicity, I will only mention the one I think is the most famous one: Anneliese Michel.

Please, do not take my words out of context (again), I am not against exorcisms, I am just thinking that if they are done "the wrong way" they could get someone dead.

In such cases, the term "exorcism" would be incorrect, but people seem to use it anyways, I'll use it between quotes fro clarity. My point is that a "well performed exorcism" will never fail, but an "incorrectly performed" one not only could fail, but might kill the person.

How exactly could a Catholic exorcism be "incorrectly performed"?

The Charismatics perform "exorcisms" which resemble what Pentecostals do, and I frankly do not believe they can actually drive demons out of people. The Priest who was involved on the Anneliese Michel's "exorcism" was also involved with the Charismatic Movement. That leads me to believe that "pentecostal methods" where used during Her "exorcism" leading to Her death.

If what I am saying is true, and I am open to the possibility that I am wrong, the problem is bigger than we think.

Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".

What are your thoughts on the matter?

I'm not sure if they still need the Bishop's permission to perform the pre-Vatican II rite. I know that was the case for a little bit of time, but I think they may have changed the rules to allow it without permission. Please if someone else knows better, fill us in.

Frances · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2013, 07:14:56 PM »

Check what happened to the amateur exorcists in the Acts of the Apostles. (Acts 19:13-16). The demonized man wasn't delivered, the would-be exorcists suffered physical injury and public humiliation. The Lord was nonetheless glorified, but not as those hapless men envisioned. As more and more evil enters the world, there is need for true exorcists. The dearth of those duly appointed to battle demons and the abundance of charlatans eager to perform is part of God's chastisement upon the wicked. Fewer and fewer are Godly, therefore, there are few exorcists.

If we know this, it is all the more important to flee from sin, to build ourselves up by the Mass, frequent Confession, frequent Communion, regular prayer, especially the Rosary. The use of various Sacramentals is likewise important. Wear the Brown Scapular, the Miraculous Medal,
the St. Benedict or St. Michael medal. Pray to the Holy Angels, your Guardian Angel. Use Holy Water, devoutly make the Sign of the Cross. Our Lord does not leave us helpless that we should have recourse to quackery.

Napoli · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2013, 07:27:57 PM »

Very wise word Neil. I could not agree with you more.

The mohemmedans are nothing but a religion started by the devil. The reason for its existence is to contradict the Catholic faith. The so called prophet mohammed was a known pedophile, rapist, murderer and of course possessed. There unholy book was specificallyput together to deny the trinity and many other catholic doctrines In oother words, to contradict the truth.

Possession is commonplace amongst the adherents. Anybody with eyes to see will tell youthat there actions are bnot human.

Holy Mother of God, ora pro nobis!

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2013, 04:52:50 AM »

Quote from: Frances

Check what happened to the amateur exorcists in the Acts of the Apostles. (Acts 19:13-16). The demonized man wasn't delivered, the would-be exorcists suffered physical injury and public humiliation. The Lord was nonetheless glorified, but not as those hapless men envisioned. As more and more evil enters the world, there is need for true exorcists. The dearth of those duly appointed to battle demons and the abundance of charlatans eager to perform is part of God's chastisement upon the wicked. Fewer and fewer are Godly, therefore, there are few exorcists.

If we know this, it is all the more important to flee from sin, to build ourselves up by the Mass, frequent Confession, frequent Communion, regular prayer, especially the Rosary. The use of various Sacramentals is likewise important. Wear the Brown Scapular, the Miraculous Medal,
the St. Benedict or St. Michael medal. Pray to the Holy Angels, your Guardian Angel. Use Holy Water, devoutly make the Sign of the Cross. Our Lord does not leave us helpless that we should have recourse to quackery.

There is a video circulating over the internet showing Pope Francis performing what appears to be an "exorcism", the pentecostal way....

Any thoughts?

PatrickG · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2013, 05:20:26 AM »

Quote

The problem in Spain is threefold.

Secularization is nothing but the abandonment of the Faith of their fathers.

They have blindly followed the revolution in the Church, the unclean spirit
of Vatican II, which includes the Newmass, and this is closely related to
secularization, but not identical to it.

Finally, the influx of Mohammedans, BACK INTO THE LAND WHERE THEY
HAD BEEN EXPELLED in A.D. 1492, the year when Columbus sailed.

Matt. xii:
43And when an unclean spirit is gone out of a man he walketh through dry
places seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith: I will return into
my house from whence I came out. And coming he findeth it empty, swept,
and garnished. 45Then he goeth, and taketh with him seven other spirits
more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last
state of that man is made worse than the first. So shall it be also to this
wicked generation.

The false god Allah is a devil and Mohammedans are possessed by him
by the millions. No wonder there's a problem in Spain.

Excellent!

Frances · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2013, 06:41:37 AM »

Pope Francis appears to be doing what Pentecostals would call a "deliverance prayer," the precursor to a "Deliverance Session" which is a self-styled exorcism for those who reject that given by Our Lord to His Church. It would be interesting to have seen more of what came before and after and to have heard the exact words. As is obvious, however, there is no outward sign of Christ, only the person of the Pope, who appears at the end to be clawing the man's headand trying to force the man by his head into his wheelchair. It is possible the man was disturbed by an evil spirit, or that Pope Francis simply aping what he's no doubt seen in his ecuмenical journeys. At any rate, the Holy Father is not performing a CATHOLIC exorcism, the only kind to set free from Satan.

Alex117 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2013, 02:01:56 PM »

Send in Pablo.

Matto · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2013, 02:12:58 PM »

I know that Bishop McKenna performed exorcisms and I heard of another sedevacantist Bishop who performed exorcisms, but I forgot his name. I don't know how often they were successful, though.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2013, 02:14:57 PM »

I wonder if a Priest ordained in the new rite using the older rite
of exorcism can expel the devils from a possessed person?

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2013, 12:06:13 AM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

I wonder if a Priest ordained in the new rite using the older rite
of exorcism can expel the devils from a possessed person?

I think they do, but not everybody might share my opinion.

I'm a sedeprivationist, for me, the material succession of the apostles goes on, and with it the jurisdiction, therefore the so-called novus ordo ordained priests are as valid as the rest because the ones who change the rite have material domain over material matters. I wonder if I was clear...

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2013, 01:07:22 AM »

Quote from: Frances

Pope Francis appears to be doing what Pentecostals would call a "deliverance prayer," the precursor to a "Deliverance Session" which is a self-styled exorcism for those who reject that given by Our Lord to His Church. It would be interesting to have seen more of what came before and after and to have heard the exact words. As is obvious, however, there is no outward sign of Christ, only the person of the Pope, who appears at the end to be clawing the man's headand trying to force the man by his head into his wheelchair. It is possible the man was disturbed by an evil spirit, or that Pope Francis simply aping what he's no doubt seen in his ecuмenical journeys. At any rate, the Holy Father is not performing a CATHOLIC exorcism, the only kind to set free from Satan.

I think, Anneliese Michel's death could be related to such "unorthodox methods". When Exorcists like Fr. Amorth say that Priests aren't exactly motivated to perform exorcisms, I think perhaps it is because some of them are not knowledgeable on the matter and wouldn't like to be involved with another case like that one.

I remember listening to an mp3 from Fr. Fortea where He admits that He sometimes "speaks in tongues" as a mean for spiritual deliverance, He declared that He is very much "freestyle" when it comes to exorcisms.

Besides that, there is a book I read where a former-witch almost died while a Bishop was "speaking in tongues" during Her exorcism.

I say this because we need more exorcists (quantity), but we need better exorcisms too (quality).

What are your thoughts?

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2013, 01:10:23 AM »

Quote from: Matto

I know that Bishop McKenna performed exorcisms and I heard of another sedevacantist Bishop who performed exorcisms, but I forgot his name. I don't know how often they were successful, though.

I find this question often whenever I read about this topic on traditionalists forums, but nobody seems to clarify the matter. I wish the traditionalists exorcists would explain it themselves.