This discussion is most interesting. The Isle of Saints and Scholars is no more - at least for now. When in Ireland it reminded me of Quebec - both formerly thoroughly Catholic, but now post-Vat II and in the age of revolution, seemingly anxious and quick to throw off the Catholic past, the Catholic stigma. Now, embarrassed about it. And even to the point of derision, Christ-hating. More than just irreligious. I had read that part of Ireland's problem was that St. Patrick had inculcated upon the Irish the importance of being under the Pope, of following the Pope. This led to the kind of obedience - maybe a certain blind or fanatical following - that puts them where they are now, in this age of unworthy Popes (in part, anyway), When visiting there, the trads, though edifying, were a minority indeed. And persecuted by their fellow novus ordo or now-pagan Irish. The world rather expected the Irish to lead and be in the vanguard of resistance against the revolution in the Church - against modernism. But, not so. Perhaps a case of, the corruption of the best is the worst.