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Author Topic: Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages  (Read 38029 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
« on: June 07, 2009, 01:37:52 AM »
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  • It's obviously a very tricky subject from a Catholic point of view.

    We cannot reject people who are mixed race.  

    However, by no means must we accept the idea that any opposition to racial mixing is some sort of sinful "racism."  That would be a form of liberal heresy.

    No one I think, wants to see the land of their ancestors handed over to foreigners.  Do we want to see a brown Europe and America, with only a small fraction of the population being purely white?

    I will confess, I think I am certainly capable of loving and of marrying a woman of another race, and I do not think it would be a sin, although it might show a lack of consideration of the possible difficulties.

    Yet I can also see that there is something unnatural about it, when I was a young boy the very idea would have seemed bizarre, this was purely instinctive.  I can see that a reason for my own changed attitude is exposure to people of other races and undoubtedly I have been subconsciously affected by the pro-race-mixing propaganda.

    I think one thing to consider when regarding the issue is that acts that in isolation are insignificant can become very significant in aggregate.

    If a tiny percentage of people married outside their race, and mass migrations were not permitted, there would be no serious social problems with miscegenation.  Individuals might suffer for it, but it not be an issue.

    Another thing to consider is that miscegenation does not have the same effect in all places.

    What might be tolerated in Brazil, should be discouraged in Japan.

    Perhaps the degree of racial mixture also makes a difference?

    Marrying someone with Amerind mixture seems to not be a big deal in the United States, if the person is mainly white.

    I think it is a matter of degree.  The complications of marrying someone from a starkly different racial group are less than those of marrying someone who is closer to one's own racial make-up.



    Offline Dylan

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 02:12:30 AM »
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  • I absolutely agree with your post, Telesphorus.

    Quote from: Telesphorus
    We cannot reject people who are mixed race.

    I also agree with this. Mixed-race people are fully capable of being Catholics and attaining Salvation. They had no choice in their conception and it isn't their fault for their parents actions.

    Quote
    No one I think, wants to see the land of their ancestors handed over to foreigners.  Do we want to see a brown Europe and America, with only a small fraction of the population being purely white?

    I certainly don't. My Irish ancestors fought to free their land from British occupiers and now Ireland is facing another invasion; one from the 3rd World yet, no one does anything about it:

    My stance is Ireland for the Irish, Britain for the British, Italy for the Italians, Germany for the Germans, Africa for the Africans, and Asia for the Asians. These are the ancestral homelands of these peoples and they have every right to keep it theirs.

    Quote
    I will confess, I think I am certainly capable of loving and of marrying a woman of another race, and I do not think it would be a sin, although it might show a lack of consideration of the possible difficulties.

    Personally, I'm only attracted to women of my own race, it is (as you said) purely instinctive.

    Quote
    If a tiny percentage of people married outside their race, and mass migrations were not permitted, there would be no serious social problems with miscegenation.  Individuals might suffer for it, but it not be an issue.

    Yes, that's how I see it. Though, I feel if people do feel the need to marry someone of another racial stock they should move to a country were it would be the norm like in the Americas.

    Quote
    Another thing to consider is that miscegenation does not have the same effect in all places.

    What might be tolerated in Brazil, should be discouraged in Japan.

    That is very true. Miscegenation isn't a problem in places like Mexico, Central America, and most South American countries (with the exceptions of Argentina and Uruguay, which are predominately White) because most of these countries are mixed race to begin with. While the countries in Europe have for thousands of years remained the same race. Even the Japanese are strongly against Miscegenation; if you go to many of the cities in Japan you will see many signs in store windows which say "No Foreigners Allowed" or "Japanese Only".

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    I think it is a matter of degree.  The complications of marrying someone from a starkly different racial group are less than those of marrying someone who is closer to one's own racial make-up.

    That is also true. For example:

    "For the overwhelming duration of Britain's history, miscegenation was not a practiced or a recognised phenomenon. Granted, the settling tribes of Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings and Normans had their differences, but they still shared a common northern European heritage, so the eventual mingling that took place between them cannot be classified as miscegenation. Centuries later today there are still individuals who are mainly Anglo-Saxon by descent, such as in the Home Counties, or Viking as found in the Yorkshire counties. In step with the growth of a multicultural society in Britain that traces its origins from the 1950s with the arrival of Commonwealth immigrants, racial mixing gradually proliferated, mainly in London and other major cities. But it's exponential increase didn't transpire until as late as the 1990s." (Source).


    Offline clare

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 03:45:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    It's obviously a very tricky subject from a Catholic point of view.


    No it isn't!

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    No one I think, wants to see the land of their ancestors handed over to foreigners.  Do we want to see a brown Europe and America, with only a small fraction of the population being purely white?


    America. Taken over by foreigners? That could never happen...

    Offline clare

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #3 on: June 07, 2009, 03:47:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: Dylan
    Mixed-race people are fully capable of being Catholics and attaining Salvation. They had no choice in their conception and it isn't their fault for their parents actions.


    And their parents did nothing wrong either.

    Offline Dylan

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 04:16:20 AM »
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  • Offline Telesphorus

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 04:16:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Telesphorus
    It's obviously a very tricky subject from a Catholic point of view.


    No it isn't!


    Sure it is.  One can have valid reasons for being opposed to it, without violating Catholic teachings.  Just as there have been valid reasons to oppose morganatic marriages, or any marital union that might cause problems.  The number of possible marital matches is vast.  Just 10 men and 10 women could be joined 10! ways.  It is important that wise thinking goes into who one considers for marriage.  It is also very wrong to say there can be no valid reason to oppose interracial marriage.

    Quote
    America. Taken over by foreigners? That could never happen...


    Yes, it has happened.  Do you think it is good for the future of the nations and peoples of America and Europe if they lose their racial character?  Obviously, the people of those nations have a right to preserve the genetic heritage they received from their ancestors.  There is no obligation to mix with other races and peoples.  Yet the pro-miscegenation side suggests any opposition is sinful "racism."  That is clearly heretical, it's the adoption of a tenet of liberalism into Christian morality, where it doesn't belong.

    Offline Dawn

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #6 on: June 07, 2009, 07:17:34 AM »
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  • Great Job guys.
    America falling to foreigners... Umm done deal from what I can tell. And, further, the army that will help the foreigners will be made up of the angry commies that are not satisfied that the wealth is not spread to their liking. Acorn alone has 400,000 members.
    If a Kenyan President is not a foreigner what is he.

    Offline sedetrad

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #7 on: June 07, 2009, 07:57:18 AM »
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  • The Catholic Church recognizes that race mixing per say is not bad if done for Catholic reasons but it didn't create a saint of "mutts" without good logical reasoning. The Church recognizes that a child born of two peoples loses his culture and identity and will have many more crosses to bear because of it. The mixing that occurred with the conquest of the New World by Catholic Spain and Portugal was good because it brought about a greater good and stopped great sins. The mixed children were raised Catholic and millions are probably in heaven. The Spanish soldiers had to marry someone to avoid unnatural sins and the indigenous women were the only ones available. I guess what I am trying to say is that the blending of the Spanish and Native peoples in the New World was good because it added to Christendom which is a greater good. The children of such mixes did face much evil and identity difficulties though because of their mixed parentage and had to bear many crosses in their lives. That is why the Church eventually made a Saint for them to pray to for their special needs. I believe it was St. Martin de Porres. Race mixing is a small natural evil in this world because of the difficulties it causes amognst peoples but it is no impediment to attaining heaven or enjoying the next world after death. Obviously, this merited those who went to heaven great crown of glory.


    Offline sedetrad

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #8 on: June 07, 2009, 08:00:56 AM »
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  • I do not believe in the concept of race as it is currently defined. I believe in the idea of ethnicity. An Irishmen is different from an Englishmen who is different from a Welshman ect. Their isn't a unified "white" race. Their isn't a unifed "black" race. Being of Jєωιѕн descent, it would be very hard for me to find a traditional Catholic wife of the same descent if I wanted to marry so I will probably have to look outside my ethnicity for a Trad wife If that is my calling and it will be for the greater Good which will be creating children to be with God in heaven.

    Offline sedetrad

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    Miscegenation/racially mixed marriages
    « Reply #9 on: June 07, 2009, 09:40:36 AM »
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  • nαzι Racism is not Catholic. Their is nothing wrong with being proud of ones heritage. Their is something wrong with raising that heritage to an Idol and worshiping it as the nαzι's did. In World War 2, the only good side was Pope Pius 12. The allies, the axis, and the communists were all evil from a traditional Catholic perspective.

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #10 on: June 07, 2009, 12:57:38 PM »
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  • Offline clare

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    « Reply #11 on: June 07, 2009, 01:08:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    ...It is also very wrong to say there can be no valid reason to oppose interracial marriage.


    There is no valid reason to oppose interracial marriage in principle. There may be valid reasons to oppose it in certain cases.

    Quote
    America. Taken over by foreigners? That could never happen...


    Yes, it has happened.  Do you think it is good for the future of the nations and peoples of America and Europe if they lose their racial character?  Obviously, the people of those nations have a right to preserve the genetic heritage they received from their ancestors. [/quote]

    I'm thinking of Native Americans. You know, the people whose land it used to be?

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    There is no obligation to mix with other races and peoples.


    Never said there was.

    Quote
    Yet the pro-miscegenation side suggests any opposition is sinful "racism."  That is clearly heretical, it's the adoption of a tenet of liberalism into Christian morality, where it doesn't belong.


    Nonsense.

    Let's see what being anti-miscegenation implies.

    It means one is worried that one's grandchildren etc might not be 100% the same race as oneself. It ignores the fact that they will still be one's grandchildren whether racially pure or "impure". It suggests that they will be defective if they are not completely white (or any other race).

    As if it matters!

    There is plenty wrong with the world, and it's getting worse, but to worry about the racial make-up of one's descendents is an utter waste of time. There are things worth worrying about. Their salvation, for example. But their paleness or brownness is an irrelevance.

    They will still be your family.

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #12 on: June 07, 2009, 01:11:04 PM »
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  • I think I'll resubmit the above post with the quote boxes corrected!

    Quote from: Telesphorus
    ...It is also very wrong to say there can be no valid reason to oppose interracial marriage.


    There is no valid reason to oppose interracial marriage in principle. There may be valid reasons to oppose it in certain cases.

    Quote
    Quote
    America. Taken over by foreigners? That could never happen...


    Yes, it has happened.  Do you think it is good for the future of the nations and peoples of America and Europe if they lose their racial character?  Obviously, the people of those nations have a right to preserve the genetic heritage they received from their ancestors.


    I'm thinking of Native Americans. You know, the people whose land it used to be?

    Quote
    There is no obligation to mix with other races and peoples.


    Never said there was.

    Quote
    Yet the pro-miscegenation side suggests any opposition is sinful "racism."  That is clearly heretical, it's the adoption of a tenet of liberalism into Christian morality, where it doesn't belong.


    Nonsense.

    Let's see what being anti-miscegenation implies.

    It means one is worried that one's grandchildren etc might not be 100% the same race as oneself. It ignores the fact that they will still be one's grandchildren whether racially pure or "impure". It suggests that they will be defective if they are not completely white (or any other race).

    As if it matters!

    There is plenty wrong with the world, and it's getting worse, but to worry about the racial make-up of one's descendents is an utter waste of time. There are things worth worrying about. Their salvation, for example. But their paleness or brownness is an irrelevance.

    They will still be your family.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #13 on: June 07, 2009, 03:49:17 PM »
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  • Quote
    It means one is worried that one's grandchildren etc might not be 100% the same race as oneself. It ignores the fact that they will still be one's grandchildren whether racially pure or "impure". It suggests that they will be defective if they are not completely white (or any other race).


    Well, should someone worry whether their children will be illegitimate, because they "will still be one's grandchildren"?

    Should someone worry whether they have a fit mother or not, or whether they have money or not?

    Those are all valid concerns.  I'm not saying one should reject one's grandchildren, but that people should have consideration for the offspring they will have, and marry wisely.

    It's not right to say that there is no valid concern in considering the race of one's offspring.


    Offline clare

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    « Reply #14 on: June 07, 2009, 04:36:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    It means one is worried that one's grandchildren etc might not be 100% the same race as oneself. It ignores the fact that they will still be one's grandchildren whether racially pure or "impure". It suggests that they will be defective if they are not completely white (or any other race).


    Well, should someone worry whether their children will be illegitimate, because they "will still be one's grandchildren"?


    Fornication is a sin, which is not the children's fault. Miscegenation is not a sin. The Church, including the SSPX, conducts mixed race marriages.

    Quote
    It's not right to say that there is no valid concern in considering the race of one's offspring.


    It should not concern Catholics.