Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matthew on July 07, 2009, 11:17:17 PM
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Here is what someone said about the Michael Jackson coverage (via e-mail). I thought he had some good points, and he taught me a few things I didn't know (since I didn't watch the coverage)
Did you see all the news coverage about "SAINT" Michael Jackson?
And for those of you who are FOX NEWS fans, did you notice that they also had saturation coverage?
If it's not bad enough that they are venerating this cheap crude rock star who also happened to be a criminal, drug addict, pervert and child molestor...
Even going so far as to say some things like almighty God called him to HEAVEN, of all things...
What stands out the most in all of this was the centerpiece of this memorial service...
Which turned out not to be about the rock star but the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr and another huge denial of the truth!
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A performance of WE ARE THE WORLD...
The ultimate propoganda piece for the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.
Have you ever seen or heard the lyrics for this "masterpiece" ?
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But this time it was broadcast live around the world complete with slick video backgrounds,
The most striking of which was the display of all the symbols of all the major religions of the world, slowly melting away as the grand "hymn" to Satan played on...
Leaving just we the people, meaning we the people of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, where Satan (not Jesus Christ) is Lord!
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But there' s more. As the religious symbols started to fade away during the music...
Guess which one faded away FIRST?
Right! Exactly right!
The Christian Cross! Coinicidence? Hardly!
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I have a question, maybe someone could help me answer it:
Is there a place in the Bible where God changes stones into bread?
I could be wrong, maybe it happened in the Old Testament...
But I'm certain Our Lord never did such a thing -- on the contrary, that is how the devil tempted him, and Our Lord rejected the temptation.
(I ask because one of the lyrics to "We are the World" contains the phrase: "As God has shown us, by turning stone to bread...")
Matthew
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The only time I can think of when stone was turned into something is when the Israelites were 40 years God would give them water every time Moses struck a rock with his stick. The bread they received fell from Heaven every day. Maybe they got the two mixed up in the lyrics.
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The modern world is truly mentaly ill and NEEDS to return to GOD!
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Possibly the lyrics are also getting mixed up with the bit in Luke 11 where Our Lord says " And which of you, if he ask his father bread, will he give him a stone?"
Or more likely, as someone said, it is a perversion of the temptation/triumph of Christ in the desert.
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I don't see anything wrong with the lyrics of "We are the World". The corporal works of mercy is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, etc... Mother Teresa helped the poor because she was doing what Jesus wanted us to do - acts of charity for neighbor. The world will become better if we have help each in Christian charity.
You don't know if Michael was a molester or not. He was aquitted of the charges. The fact that both cases the parents sought a pay off makes it suspicious that the accusations were for real. When you are rich you will always find people who want to slander you out of jealousy or seek ways of getting money out of you.
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Oh, please. Jackson had numerous operations to make his face become a girl, and his public performances were all about simulating self-abuse.
Jackson isn't really something which should ever be seen or talked about publicly. I am truly sorry my kids even had to know he existed by looking at the grotesque photos.
Yuk.
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I am currently studying abuse in my Master's classes in college and 99 percent of children that say they have been abused HAVE been sɛҳuąƖly abused. Most children that have been abused in that grotesque manner keep it to themselves and do not report it. The number of cases of sɛҳuąƖ abuse that I have seen in children nowadays in the profession that I am going into would make "complacent" people rip their eyes out. It is far more common than people realize in our modern world sadly. I pray for the chastisement daily.
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I wonder what Jackson's child thinks about having been dangled out over a balcony in Germany.
Maybe Alex could pray for the children corrupted by Jackson.
My husband and I have abuse training...the dynamics and problems leading up to this behavior are sadly ignored by many trad clergy. People simply don't want to deal with it.
Good luck with your degree. You will work with the poorest of the poor. Mark Fellows, authour of 'Fatima in Twilight' and another work (can't remember because I havn't read it) works in the field.
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I have seen mothers look the other way and ignore the fact that their boyfriends and husbands routinely rape their daughters. People will go out of their way to ignore and cover up this greatest of evils. Anyone who is complicit in the coverup of the molestation of any child should be hung until dead. They would of course recieve last rights and final confession before the government hung them.
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In college, I coulde not believe the amount of women that I met as friends that told me that they had been molested as children by relatives, family friends, ect. Our society is sick and getting sicker. I come from a close knit family that sheltered me from many of the worlds evils so the above was quite the eye opener.
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Just because child abuse is more common than we think, it does not mean that MJ did it himself. Where is your proof? Apparently, the jurers didn't have any proof to convict yet you want to make a judgement having seen none of the facts.
Yes, most child abuse cases go unreported, but I still think there still should have been more children coming forward with allegations against MJ. They didn't seem to be a problem with acusers coming forward for the priests who were molesters.
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Many did come forward and they all were paid off.
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MJ had many problems but I don't but the pedophile allegations. Those allegations reeked of a money grab to me. Anyway, I said a prayer for his soul and that's that. All this coverage and glorification of a deeply flawed individual is perverse.
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Many did come forward and they all were paid off.
Oh Really? Who told you this? The only ones the media reported were the two who brought forth allegations.
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Alex, why are you defending Jackson? His performances are extremely impure. A Catholic has no business watching such material. Fifty years ago he would have been arrested for public indecency.
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Alex, why are you defending Jackson? His performances are extremely impure. A Catholic has no business watching such material. Fifty years ago he would have been arrested for public indecency.
Did I ever defend his performances? I was defending him against those who believe 100% that he was a child molester. We don't know if he was or not. The jurors who had all the evidence before them could not even determine if he was guilty of the charges or not. Don't label him a child molester if ou don't know for sure and are only going on 2 accusations of people who sought monetary settlements instead of justice. If I was a parent whose child was abused, I would want to make sure that he never did this to another child again - which would mean hat I would want seek criminal charges. The fact that the parents of the 2 accusers were happy settling for money intead of making sure MJ is behind bars makes it a high possibility that the accusations may have been false.
A guy who actually saw the court docuмents of MJ's trial wrote, " Having this fascination with Michael that I do, I followed the trial very very closely. I even have a jury tag from one of the jurors, I think he sat in row C, about 5 seats away from Michael. Anyways, it's surprising that someone would say that the evidence was so damning because I actually read the evidence, that is to say, the actual court docuмents that were leaked (as opposed to Nancy Grace senationalising the fact that he grabs his crotch), and the evidence isn't damning in the slightest. Damning to a career, but not damning enough to be labeled a criminal. Weird, yes, malicious, no."
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There are evil parents who put their children in abusive situations for monetary gain. It happens all the time. Just because you would seek justice rather than money, no not assume others would. Mothers sell their children into sɛҳuąƖ bondage for drugs all the time.
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Alex, one could argue that if Jackson HAD been convicted, it was a frame-up.
I can't help thinking you would be one of those crying, "frame-up!"
He hung one of his kids out over a balcony in Germany. He said he liked to snuggle with the boys in an interview. He wore make up to look like a girl, but he was 50 years old.
The parents who allowed their underage children to go for unsupervised sleepovers at this freak's "Neverland"(!!) mansion were either paedophiles themselves or dumber than a bag of hammers.
Defending Jackson against being a paedophile is like defending [sic]Madonna against being a whore. No, she wasn't convicted..
Anyway, Alex, you are skating on very thin ice with your fascination by Jackson. Civil Laws are not necessarily God's laws, are they?
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There are evil parents who put their children in abusive situations for monetary gain. It happens all the time. Just because you would seek justice rather than money, no not assume others would. Mothers sell their children into sɛҳuąƖ bondage for drugs all the time.
Yes. And since it could be either scenario (that the monetary settlement means the accusations were false or that the monetary settlement means that the parents don't care about putting their child in an abusive situation for monetary gain), we are cannot make a definite judgement on MJ.
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Alex, one could argue that if Jackson HAD been convicted, it was a frame-up.
I can't help thinking you would be one of those crying, "frame-up!"
He hung one of his kids out over a balcony in Germany. He said he liked to snuggle with the boys in an interview. He wore make up to look like a girl, but he was 50 years old.
The parents who allowed their underage children to go for unsupervised sleepovers at this freak's "Neverland"(!!) mansion were either paedophiles themselves or dumber than a bag of hammers.
Defending Jackson against being a paedophile is like defending [sic]Madonna against being a whore. No, she wasn't convicted..
Anyway, Alex, you are skating on very thin ice with your fascination by Jackson. Civil Laws are not necessarily God's laws, are they?
And I can't help thinking that you would be one of those crying "Pedophile" to every priest that got accused of molesting boys. There were some innocent priests who were accused of this crime by enemies of the Church, by those who had a gripe with the priest, or by those seeking monetary gain.
If Jackson had been found guilty, then I would believe he was a pedophile because I would trust that there was enough evidence against him to come to that conclusion. The jurors spend weeks listening to testimonies and evidence and came up with not guilty verdict. They could have easily come out with a hung jury, which means that they were unsure if he did molest or not. But no, they came out with "not guilty". I think they know better than you considering that they had all the evidence and you don't.
So he hung his kid out the balcony. The media made a bigger deal of it than it actually was - portraying him as a bad father who purposely put his child in danger. When I first heard the news and saw all the hoopla over it, I thought they were making a bigger deal of it than it actually was. How many times have I seen fathers playfully toss their child (the same age as MJ's was) up in the air and catch them. I always thought that was putting the child in danger because the father could easily fail to catch the child. Do people make a big deal of that when we see it. Just because Michael did something stupid in the spur of the moment over his excitement to show his kid to the fans, it does not mean he is a bad father or even a child molester. How many times have any of us done something stupid on the spur of the moment and then later realized that it was a dangerous thing to do. I for one could imagine myself doing what MJ did. A few years ago, I almost killed my grandmother when I tried to put on a sock on her leg as she was still standing up. She lost her balance and fell on her back and head on the marble floor- ended up having internal bleeding and and broken rib. When the doctor in the emergency room asked me how she had fallen and I told him what I had done, he looked at me with a disgust look in his face and sneeringyly said, "How could you put a sock on her while she was standing. He looked at me like a was a Grandmother abuser. Then when he got on the phone with another doctor to get advice, I heard him tell the doctor, "Can you believe this girl put a sock her her granmother while she was standing" and he did one of those laughs that express mockery and disgust. He saw me as a bad grandchild who purposely put my grandmother in danger.
As for liking to snuggle in the boys, that does not mean that he is a pedophile. He felt close to children because they were the only ones who weren't around him to get something from him. He liked to be around children, since he got robbed of his childhood, he was reliving it as an adult. I can understand that. When I was a child, I longed for a certain toy so bad and wanted it throughout my childhood. But my parents never got me the toy. Now as an adult, I sometimes wish I could be a child again so I could play with the toy. Sometimes what we never have as a child that we want so bad, we grow up still wanting it. So I can understand why Michael who never had a childhood would want to relive it now.
If MJ's reason for wearing make-up was to look like a girl, then how come he wore it in his "Beat It" video where he's a tough gang member fighting other gang members. And all his other videos where he's wearing the make-up showed him pursing a female. The make-up he wore in the videos was the same make-up he wore in real life. Now, Boy George, on the other hand, he wore it to look like a girl. Jon Bon Jovi wears make-up in real life. A lot of rockers do - eye masacara and eyeliner, foundation. Not that I'm saying it's Ok. But it doesn't mean that you a man wants to be a girl. MJ could have worn it for the same reason rockers do or he could have worn it to hide his scars and disfigurement from his surgeries gone wrong.
Why are you even bringing up his balcony episode and his make-up, anyway? What does that prove about him being a child molester?
No, defending Jackson being a pedophile is not like defending Madonna against being a whore. We all know Madonna is a whore because she has publicized her whoreness. In her videos, in her book, in her reality TV show, in public for the whole world to see. So, we have undisputed evidence in abundance that Madonna is a whore because she has made it public to us all throughout her career. But we don't have undisputed proof at all that MJ molested a child. If we did, then the jurors would certainly have found him guilty.
No, Elizabeth, you are skating on thin ice by commiting the sin of rash judgement. Rash judgment is when we go beyond the evidence available to judge the culpability of the action, attribute evil motives, and decide against the character or moral integrity of the person whose conduct we observed. You are labeling a man as a pedophile based on 2 unproven accusations and the media's sensationalism. It is unChristianly behavior to call someone a pedophile when you don't even have all the facts or evidence. If MJ is actually innocent, then you are also guilty of the sin of calumny since you are contributing to the harm of his reputation. Civil law says "a man is innocent until proven guilty". God's Laws says, " You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (The Eighth Commandment forbids rash judgement, calumny, and detraction). You are following neither the civil law nor God's Law.
I do not have a fascination with MJ. Never even used to listen to his songs (except I do like 2 childhood songs of his I listen to rarely whenever I happen to come across them on the radio). When I would catch a glimpse of his photo standing in the checkout line, I would, however, feel very sorry for him since he led such a lonely existence with no friends to confide in and lean on to make life bareable and only people around him who were out to get something. He's a person to feel sad for not to be hated.
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Alex, you are making comparisons about wanting a toy
with using boys to compensate for a lack in childhood. This
is distrurbing in itself.
I am dividing my attention between phonics/kids and the computer, so I can't deal with your post point by point right now.
If you are fascinated by great sould who were calumnated, you might want to study and sympathise with some of our saint's lives.
Jackson is exactly the opposite of the Christian mentality, a grotseque mockery of almost every Christlike or Marylike ideal.
But thanks for the glimpse into what causes your sympathy for Jackson.
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Alex, you are making comparisons about wanting a toy
with using boys to compensate for a lack in childhood. This
is distrurbing in itself.
I am dividing my attention between phonics/kids and the computer, so I can't deal with your post point by point right now.
If you are fascinated by great sould who were calumnated, you might want to study and sympathise with some of our saint's lives.
Jackson is exactly the opposite of the Christian mentality, a grotseque mockery of almost every Christlike or Marylike ideal.
But thanks for the glimpse into what causes your sympathy for Jackson.
When have I ever defended him in saying that he lived a Christian lifestyle? I am not concerning myself here with his crotch grabbing, his conversion to Kabballah and then Islam, and everything else he did that was not Christian. All my posts here were meant for the purpose of defending him against those who are calling him a child molester. You, or anyone else, cannot label him a child molester if you don't have the proof. That would be rash judgement and calumny. Get over your hatred of this guy for a second and stop venting about the bad stuff he did which has no relevance as to whether he was a child molester or not.
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Get over defending a grown man having sleepovers with little boys and snuggling with them, Alex. You have gone too far; you cannot defend this because it is a perversion. Boys are not toys, get it?
Get over a grown man dangling a helpless child over a balcony, Alex. I'm sorry you almost killed your own grandmother and felt like the doctors were being suspicious of your accident. How you compare putting on Granny's socks with dangling children off balconies and come up with empathy for Michael Jackson is probably a longer story than you have revealed. Perhaps you have been falsly accused of something that horrifies you, but how you relate this to Jackson's behavior with children is disturbing.
Your descriptions of Jackson's performances reveal that you do in fact watch them,and all the while lecture others about their non-Christian behavior.
Your whole act here is bogus holier-than-thou. Defending a pervert who has sleepovers with boys and isn't convicted, because..why? Well because you are saying you do not listen to his songs, yet offer descriptions of his videos. See, that shows how bogus what you are saying is. You would not know how to describe his make-up in a particular video and compare it to the make-up of another freak if you didn't watch it. :pop:
Alex said: "So he hung his kid out the balcony."....."I for one could imagine myself doing what MJ did." (re: balcony dangling)
First and little snuggle, and then a bit of playful dangling?
:popcorn: I can't wait to see what's next.
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Apparently Alex thinks MK Ultra is some kind of joke. It is a given that all MK Slaves are victims of pedophilia and when they grow up to be Slave Handlers they then become perps who abuse their own children-- this is SOP. Satanic Ritual Bloodlines like the Jacksons thrive by committing crimes on those who cannot fight back-- children especially.
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/illuminati_formula_mind_control.htm
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Get over defending a grown man having sleepovers with little boys and snuggling with them, Alex. You have gone too far; you cannot defend this because it is a perversion. Boys are not toys, get it?
Get over a grown man dangling a helpless child over a balcony, Alex. I'm sorry you almost killed your own grandmother and felt like the doctors were being suspicious of your accident. How you compare putting on Granny's socks with dangling children off balconies and come up with empathy for Michael Jackson is probably a longer story than you have revealed. Perhaps you have been falsly accused of something that horrifies you, but how you relate this to Jackson's behavior with children is disturbing.
Your descriptions of Jackson's performances reveal that you do in fact watch them,and all the while lecture others about their non-Christian behavior.
Your whole act here is bogus holier-than-thou. Defending a pervert who has sleepovers with boys and isn't convicted, because..why? Well because you are saying you do not listen to his songs, yet offer descriptions of his videos. See, that shows how bogus what you are saying is. You would not know how to describe his make-up in a particular video and compare it to the make-up of another freak if you didn't watch it. :pop:
Alex said: "So he hung his kid out the balcony."....."I for one could imagine myself doing what MJ did." (re: balcony dangling)
First and little snuggle, and then a bit of playful dangling?
:popcorn: I can't wait to see what's next.
Having sleepovers is disturbing but it does not mean that he molested them. When you come up with the evidence that he molested anyone, than you can call him a child molester. Until then, the only thing you can do is say that you suspect he MIGHT be a child molester. But to say that he definitely IS one (having no proof whatsoever) you cannot do - that would be rash judgement and possibly calumny.
I've been accused wrongly many times based on my outward behavior that seemed odd to people. Sometimes I did not act how a normal person would act so they made wrong conclusions about me. So I do know that it is possible that what seems odd to most people can be misconstrued in the negative.
When did I ever say that I never watched his videos. I said that I "never even used to listen to his songs (except I do like 2 childhood songs of his I listen to rarely whenever I happen to come across them on the radio)". I've seen three of his video's about once , along with other videos I used to watch when I used to watch MTV in my sinful past . The rest of the videos I know of from brief glimpses when they would put it on the news or when I would be channel surfing and pass through to another channel. See how easy it is to misjudge without knowing the facts.
I know my heart and my emotions when I was writing the posts. You have accused me of trying to be holier-than-thou when I am not. Once again, you wrongfully judged a person and accused a person of being something they are not. It seems that you have a habit of doing this to people, not just with MJ.
All I am trying to get across is that, without proof, you have no right to label anyone a child molester without facts to back it up (whether it be MJ or anyone else who seems to have displayed suspicious behavior). It would be wise, however, as a precaution (just in case he was a molester) to not have your kids around him alone. I talked with a priest I know about it and he agreed that it was wrong to call MJ a child molester when there wasn't evidence to support it.
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CLARIFICATION: the "other videos I used to watch" refer to videos that weren't of Michael Jackson .
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MJ was a child molester.
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:ready-to-eat:
What about the children Michael Jackson has corrupted, who watched and learned impurity by seeing his videos? Why would you possibly assume that sleepovers with little boys were innocent if he was comfortable with his deliberate obscene behavior in public?
Michael Jackson was/is molesting the purity and innocence of every child unloved enough to be allowed to watch his filth.
I have the proof and so do you, Alex. Children watch Michael Jackson's videos and as far as I know there was no prohibition of children attending his concerts. So, you may step back from your concern about Elizabeth commiting the grave sin of calumny. In fact, why don't you look up calumny and learn what it is.
I am very sorry that you are unable to understand that your Jackson guy has corrupted a child by having him over for a sleepover and that snuggling with him is OK.
:farmer:
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:ready-to-eat:
What about the children Michael Jackson has corrupted, who watched and learned impurity by seeing his videos? Why would you possibly assume that sleepovers with little boys were innocent if he was comfortable with his deliberate obscene behavior in public?
Michael Jackson was/is molesting the purity and innocence of every child unloved enough to be allowed to watch his filth.
I have the proof and so do you, Alex. Children watch Michael Jackson's videos and as far as I know there was no prohibition of children attending his concerts. So, you may step back from your concern about Elizabeth commiting the grave sin of calumny. In fact, why don't you look up calumny and learn what it is.
I am very sorry that you are unable to understand that your Jackson guy has corrupted a child by having him over for a sleepover and that snuggling with him is OK.
:farmer:
"What about the children Michael Jackson has corrupted, who watched and learned impurity by seeing his videos?"
Why don't you stick to the issue? We aren't talking about children Michael Jackson has corrupted from seeing his videos. We are talking about whether a Christian should be committing the sin of rash judgement and calumny by calling someone a child molester without having the proof to back it up.
"Why would you possibly assume that sleepovers with little boys were innocent if he was comfortable with his deliberate obscene behavior in public?"
A lot of male singers are even more obscene in their video and stage behavior than MJ ever was (not that I am conding his crotch grabbing, mind you). And whereas MJ's lyrics were non-sɛҳuąƖ (only about love) thier lyrics are all about sex. According to your logic, that must mean that they must be even more depraved child molesters than MJ.
"I have the proof and so do you, Alex."
If you got a hold of some proof that the prosecuting attorney and jurors never received, you should have come forward with the evidence. Oh well, too late, MJ is dead.
I have proof? Once again you judge. If I did have undisputed proof, then I would not hestitate to say that MJ was a molester. Apparently, in your habit of rash judgement, you must think that I idolize MJ and would turn a blind eye to whatever crime or sin he committed. If I don't even turn a blind eye for whatever wrongs the Pope did, what makes you think I would do that for a guy like MJ.
P.S. Calumny means the unjust damaging of the good name of another by imputing to him a crime or fault of which he is not guilty. MJ has been found not guilty. There is no proof brought forth so far that has convicted him of the crime. Thereore to label him a molester is calumny.
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Michael jackson was a child molester-- his estate can sue me if they please.
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Jackson paid out $15 million dollars to that boy, 13 years old at the time of his s
Fifteen million dollars.
http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/jacksoncourtdocs3cc.pdf
Rash? Calumny? What game are you playing, Alex?
I have every right to call grown men who have unsupervised sleepovers with boys sharing their bedroom and snuggling child molesters.
Yep, I do. Go read up on the sermons of the Cure D'Ars.
Don't give me that NAMBLA -inspired nonsense.
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The payoff is not proof of his guilt. He could have paid the settlement to save himself a big headache and public humiliaton. 15 million is not as much to him as it is to us. Having members of my family who are millionaires, they have used money to take care of a big headache instead of fight back.
I'm getting tired of arguing with you. Why don't you go ask a priest who is solid in his moral theology whether you can publicly label a man a child molester merely on speculation and not on any evidence. And don't forget to tell the priest that the jurors who had all the evidence and testimony before them (unlike you) found him not guilty - not even undecided, which would have been a hung jury, but not guilty.
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I'm getting tired of arguing with you.
Because you are in over your head with the NAMBLA mentality.
Why don't YOU go ask a priest if you can have a sleepover with a 13-year-old boy and snuggle with him? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
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Because you are in over your head with the NAMBLA mentality.
Why don't YOU go ask a priest if you can have a sleepover with a 13-year-old boy and snuggle with him? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
You are unbelieveable! Why do you keep evading the issue?!
Let me break it down to you in simple terms.
When you go to the priest:
1) Don't ask him whether it was OK for MJ to have sleepovers with boys.
2) Don't ask him whether MJ was a bad influence with his crotch grabbing.
3) Don't ask him whether it was OK for him to wear make-up.
4) Don't ask him whether he was a bad father by dangling his son over the balcony.
Ask the priest this, and only this (are you reading very carefully now):
ASK THE PRIEST WHETHER IT IS OK TO PUBLICLY CALL MJ A CHILD MOLESTER (WHEN YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE THIS FACT). AND WHETHER DOING SO WOULD BE THE SIN OF RASH JUDGEMENT AND CALUMNY.
Let me repeat so it can sink in.
ASK THE PRIEST WHETHER IT IS OK TO PUBLICLY CALL MJ A CHILD MOLESTER (WHEN YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE THIS FACT).AND WHETHER DOING SO WOULD BE THE SIN OF RASH JUDGEMENT AND CALUMNY.
I asked a priest already and he said that what you are doing is unChristianly behavior. Now you go to a priest and ask him the same thing.
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:laugh1:
Grown man+ sleepover with young boys+shared bedroom + snuggling+accusation by boy=child molestation.
Let's see the name and phone number of the priest who says I am being unChristian, please.