Quote from: Graham

I don't think Italy, as a whole, has ever been renowned for its liturgical correctness.

Perhaps, but there is no liturgically "correct" or "incorrect" posture for the laity at Mass as it is entirely a matter of custom.

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Dolores

As far as I am aware, the posture of the laity during Mass has never been been determined by the rubrics.  Rather, it was always a matter of custom.

This is correct.  There are no official rubrics for the laity.

There are rubrics for the postures of the laity at low Mass, as described below. The “Lasance” Missal contains a card which describes the postures on page 72 (on my edition) entitled “When to kneel, stand, and sit at Low, High, Requiem or Solemn Mass according to the custom in America. This is usually as far as people go when quoting Lasance, however there are more details on the footnotes of the card, and additionally much more "international" details on pages 69 and 70. Notice that in all instances, American custom  and "international", the laity kneel for the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei in all Masses. The new USA SSPX postures are to stand during the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei.

The New Roman Missal by Rev. F.X. Lasance Imprimatur 1937 & 1945 (reprint by  Christian Book Club of America 1993):

Page 69 – Low Mass

When the celebrant enters the sanctuary the laity rise and remain standing till he descends to the foot of the altar to begin Mass.  They then kneel and remain so throughout the mass, except during the two gospels, during which they stand.  (Rubricae Generales Massalis, Tit. 17, n. 2.)  De Herdt (Vol. I, n. 146) says this rubric is not perceptive but directive only.

Note – When the last Gospel is that of St. John they make a simple genuflection with the priest at the words “Et Verbum,” etc., then rise and reamin standing until the priest reaches the foot of the altar.

Page 69 – 70 High Mass

The rubrics give no direction. Gavantus (Pars I, Tit. 17) and Pouget ( Institutiones Catholicae in modum Catecheseos, Pars 3, Sect. 2, cap7, & 20) say that the people may conform to the rules given for those who are in the choir. Hence the people:

1)   Stand – from the time the celebrant enters the sanctuary to the beginning of the Mass
2)   Kneel – from the beginning of the mass until the celebrant ascends the altar after the Confiteor.
3)   Stand – from the time the celebrant ascends the altar until he goes to the bench after the intonation of the Glora. During the singing of the Kyrie eleison the people sit if the celebrant sits.
4)   Sit – while the choir sings the Gloria
5)   Stand – from the time the celebrant rises from the bench to the end of the Orations.
6)   Sit – from the beginning of the Epistle to the Dominus vobiscuм before the gospel.
7)   Stand – during the Gospel and the recitation of the Credo; during the latter they make a genuflection on one knee at Et incarnates est
8)   Sit – while the celebrant takes his seat, and whilst the Credo is being sung by the choir, except at the Et incarnatus est… et homo factus est, when they kneel on both knees.
9)   Stand – when the celebrant rises to return to the altar and remain standing whiklst he sings Diminus vobiscuм and Oremus.
10)   Sit – from the Oremus to the beginning of the Preface – Per omnia saecula saeculorum.
Note: During solemn Mass when incense is used the people stand during the incensing of the congregation. Remain standing for the Preface.
11)   Stand – from the beginning of the Preface until the celebrant begins the Sanctus.
12)   Kneel – from the Hosanna, etc., until the Per omnia saecula saeculorum before the Pater Noster.
13)   Stand – from the Pater Noster until the Agnus Dei.
14)   Kneel – from the Agnus Dei until the Dominus Vobiscuм before the Postcommunion.
15)   Stand – from the Postcommunion and remain standing until the celebrant gives the Blessing.
16)   Kneel – during the Blessing
17)   Stand – during the Last Gospel and remain standing until the celebrant has left the sanctuary.
Note: When the Last Gospel is that of St. John, the people should make a simple genuflection with the priest at the word ‘Et Verbum,” etc., then rise and remain standing until the celebrant has left the sanctuary.

Quote from: clare

Quote from: TheRealMcCoy

The SSPX put out new mass instruction cards that state for High Mass during the Pater Noster, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei we are to stand.

That's normal for High Masses, isn't it?

Not at FSSP or ICRSS. This is something different I've noticed at SSPX chapels. A few elderly faithful kneel right away.

Rubrics? I typed word for word what the Fr. Lasance Missal says concerning the postures in the 1930's and 1940's, it is very detailed, and covers Low Mass, which has Rubrics, and Solemn High mass which does not have rubrics. What you posted above about 1962 does not speak of Low or High or Solemn mass and you speak of "rubrics". Please be precise in what you write, post what was the practice in 1962 in like detail from a credible source.

The FSSP, ICK, (and the majority of the SSPX priests in the USA), apparently do not use the postures you "say" are the rubrics for the 1962 missal for they all use the American custom postures described in the Lasance. This throws a wrench in your theory above. The practice of standing at the Sanctus and Agnus Dei at high mass began with the school children at St. Mary's Kansas, as far as I have found out, and has spread to a few chapels influenced by the children or young priests. It is not the practice in the majority of the SSPX chapels.

Now, the practice in St. Mary's Kansas of Standing at the Preface and the Sanctus at Low Mass  is a novelty that for certain started also at St. Mary's, Kansas and the practice is unheard of in any USA trad chapel of any kind, whether FSSP, ICK, Indult, Independent, Sede or whatever. In fact I had never heard or read of this practice anywhere in the USA prior to hearing of it from students at St. Mary's.

(If questioning a practice that was not done at any church in the USA prior to Vatican II, and not done by any trad priest after Vat II changes to this day, except at St. Mary's Kansas since quite recently is  "grinding an axe" to you, then anything goes, you we might as well join the persoanlly concocted "new and improved mass postures" that that nobody layman Mr. Friend that you referenced . He is a typical example of what the priest have done to destroy the church since Vatican II, in the name of "they didn't know what they were doing before".  

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Quote from: JPM

Quote from: Last Tradhican

Now, the practice in St. Mary's Kansas of Standing at the Preface and the Sanctus at Low Mass  is a novelty that for certain started also at St. Mary's, Kansas and the practice is unheard of in any USA trad chapel of any kind, whether FSSP, ICK, Indult, Independent, Sede or whatever. In fact I had never heard or read of this practice anywhere in the USA prior to hearing of it from students at St. Mary's.

M'kay. Clearly you are here to grind an axe.  Don't let me stop you with the facts.

If questioning a LOW MASS practice that was not done at any church in the USA prior to Vatican II, and not done by any trad priest after Vat II changes to this day, except at St. Mary's Kansas since quite recently is  "grinding an axe" to you, then anything goes, you we might as well join the personally concocted "new and improved mass postures" that that nobody layman Mr. Friend that you referenced . He is a typical example of what the priest have done to destroy the church since Vatican II, in the name of "they didn't know what they were doing before".  

Well, I am not from St. Mary's and I have never been anything but Traditional Catholic, and this is what I've always been taught.