It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.Quite edified, really.
We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.
He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.
He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
Gum beannaicheadh Dia thu
Gwaredd,A chi hefyd. 😊 In case anyone is interested chi is pronounced klee and hefyd is hefid. Now, didn't that make your day? 🤣 Well, I'm out, must go and pray my Rosary. I wish everyone a good and restful evening.
You have a good, a wise, and a realistic view of things. Much the same as my own, including my beloved wife's cooking as well as her goodness.
If you have a good priest, why look elsewhere as there are so few of them who come into our lives.
Affiliations and factions mean nothing in the greater schema, it is the Religion and the Truth which will save our souls.Gum beannaicheadh Dia thu
It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.
We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.
He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.
He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
Anyone who criticizes having to go to a hotel room for Mass hasn't been Trad long, and/or doesn't understand what the Trad movement is all about.In reading some of the horror stories regarding the various SSPX chapels, we consider ourselves very fortunate to have what we have. We have never had a pastor who touted some of the things that a few have posted. However, +Fellay is an entirely different matter.
The Trad movement is about keeping the Faith, and keeping oneself unsullied from the influences of Modernism and Vatican II.
We are in lifeboats. Lifeboats are USUALLY rustic. And in fact, more often than not, when the lifeboats get too comfy, people start mistaking the lifeboat for the sinking boat they left! That's what happened to the SSPX. The SSPX did such a good job re-creating the Church: a network of chapels, seminaries, ordinations, retreat centers, parochial schools, etc. that some people think the Crisis is over, and that the SSPX *IS* the Church!
Going to be yet again, the little boy who says the emperor has no clothes."The SSPX is included in this because it has already made [four] agreements with Rome".
NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.
The reasoning is the same as not attending the indult Mass.
One of the saints in the time of the Arian crises refused to accept Holy Communion from an Arian Bishop. Perfectly validly ordained and consecrated, perfectly "traditional", but he was an arian and in union with the arian heresy.
Those who are in union with the modernist heresy, are in the exact same way, to be avoided.
The SSPX is included in this because it has already made 4 agreements with Rome.
1. Holy Orders,
2. Confessions
3. Matrimony (will be the most obvious to people)
4. The deal with the Argentinian government and Rome recognising the SSPX.
This position has nothing to do with Sedevacantism or some kind of extremism, or flat earth(some will think that!)
It is just the position that the SSPX has held for many years (before the resistance), and is based on the moral theology and practice of the Church of all ages.
AMDG
"The SSPX is included in this because it has already made [four] agreements with Rome".
By stating that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome implies that the whole society has made these four agreements. No. These "agreements" can be laid squarely on the shoulders of +Fellay and a few of his henchmen. All the priests we've had have never proclaimed that they thought these so-called agreements were/are a good thing. Maybe this is true with some SSPX priests but this has not been our experience.
Your comments seem a bit strident whereby you wish to toss out the baby with the bath water.
If the truth is "strident" then so be it."NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX".
The whole SSPX has made these agreements because the superior has made them. This is the whole point of having a superior of anything. So that one person speaks for many.
The subjective opinion of individual priests is irrelevant. They are objectively tied into the now Neo-Modernist SSPX.
NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.
NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.Oh right, thanks for reminding us all...Outside Sedevacantism there is no Salvation!
I must point this out: that it is a rare gift to be able to abstract from your own personal situation, and realize that others' situations are far different."You are going to have visits from the District Superior, etc. who will tell you that Vatican II isn't so bad..."
For example, you seem to be at one of the best SSPX chapels in existence, going by your testimony and description. You don't speak much about propaganda, lies, manipulation of the Faithful, evidence of Modernist infection, spying on the Faithful, various tyrannical behavior, etc. but I assure you, these things have happened and are happening at other chapels.
I'm happy for you that you're on the path to salvation, and that your particular SSPX chapel seems to be the prudential answer in your case. For that matter, there is an older man at my old SSPX chapel who recently passed away -- if I were him, I might have done what he did -- that is to say, stay with the SSPX. For him, it was more important to get the Last Rites, go to weekly Mass, etc. than stand up for the future of Tradition and stand on one's principles. In 2012, he only had a few years of life left, and he has no Traditional children or grandchildren that I'm aware of.
That is why I have to say the decision is one of PRUDENCE, not FAITH or DOGMA. If it was a matter of Faith, then those who chose wrongly would literally be going to hell. But such is not the case. It's about prudence -- a subjective judgment we make based on the information we have, and our own precise situation.
The SSPX is a monolithic, multi-national corporation. But that doesn't mean that its priests all participate in one "hive mind" or some nonsense like that. They are all individual souls. Some are liberal, and some are not. But they are all loyal to the Monster at this time, and they all have to be subject to it, following its laws and directives, and that is the problem with SSPX chapels:
Even if you had the Cure of Ars offering daily Mass at your SSPX chapel, which happened to be built like a Cathedral, there is still the problem that your SSPX chapel is part of the SSPX Corporation with its liberal-ruled headquarters in Menzingen. You are going to have visits from the District Superior, etc. who will tell you that Vatican II isn't so bad, that we are excessive in our resistance to Vatican II, that we need to be more moderate, that Rome isn't so bad, etc.
Those things were all said recently at my SSPX chapel in San Antonio, by Fr. Wegner. I'm not going to expose my children to priests uttering such lies. Vatican II is heretical and I want no part of it. It IS a superheresy, the biggest crisis to ever befall the Church. I am Traditional Catholic, the son of Traditional Catholics, and was raised Traditional Catholic from birth. The only way to react to Modernism/Vatican II/Conciliar Church is COMPLETE ABSTINENCE, complete aloofness. Everything else is dangerous compromise, supping with the devil.
When someone tries to tone down my resistance and hatred for Vatican II, a huge alarm goes off and I put up a wall of separation.
Furthermore, the SSPX is Wal-mart, and the rest of the Trad world is like the mom & pop stores Wal-mart routinely puts out of business. By attending the SSPX and making donations every Sunday, you're feeding the monster.
As an organization, I hate the SSPX. Not the people in the organization, but the organization itself. Its leaders are my enemies, because they are enemies of the Faith. They are in the same category as Pope Francis, even if the latter is further along in the corruption process. I pray that they be converted and confess their mortal sins before they die. If I could make a phone call and the whole SSPX organization could be shut down and put out of business, I would do it in a heartbeat. The SSPX is worldly, corrupt, liberal, and compromising. They are using techniques normally associated with Freemasonic politicians.
NOTE: I didn't say I want to nuke all the priests, people, etc. I just said put the SSPX out of business. Believe me, those priests would all start independent chapels, and probably in the same places they are in now. But it would be without all the monolithic, Big Business attitude they have right now. Each chapel would be on its own. Some would be liberal, others would be great. It would all depend on the area, the priest, and the congregation.
The SSPX got too big, and for years they've had a problem with avarice (desiring to acquire real estate and power) and they think they ARE the Church. They look down on other non-SSPX Trad priests/groups. I STILL have to routinely chase these thoughts and prejudices out of my head, after attending an SSPX seminary, chapels, etc. for years. They seriously consider non-SSPX chapels and non-SSPX priests as automatically 2nd class or lower, as automatically suspect.
:cheers:And Pecan pieHa, Cheers back mate. :cheers: Yes, by all means, don't forget the pecan pie. 😜
Oh right, thanks for reminding us all...Outside Sedevacantism there is no Salvation!😂😂🤣🤣 Thanks for the bit of cheeky humour.
We should all meditate on this for 15 min a day (sarcasm alert).
Is this Bp. Williamson's stance as well?Why would he, he has not done so with the Novus Ordo so why would he do it with a valid Traditional Mass?
As far as I know, His Excellency has not red-lighted attending SSPX chapels.
Why would he, he has not done so with the Novus Ordo so why would he do it with a valid Traditional Mass?"...he has not done so with the Novus Ordo..." What? 😳 Even our SSPX priest has done that. Whew!
Why would he, he has not done so with the Novus Ordo so why would he do it with a valid Traditional Mass?
Oh right, thanks for reminding us all...Outside Sedevacantism there is no Salvation!
We should all meditate on this for 15 min a day (sarcasm alert).
Is this Bp. Williamson's stance as well?
As far as I know, His Excellency has not red-lighted attending SSPX chapels.
"NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX".
Therefore, I'm a bad Catholic. So, unless I follow your path, whatever it is, I'm going to hell with my shoes and socks on, is that correct? And, here all along, I thought that I only had to account to God for my choices be they good or bad. Now, it seems, I have to also render an account to an uneducated layman for my behaviour.
Let me ask you, what's more important, saving my soul or following your advice? Finally, from where do you derive your authority to render such a judgement? I thought that that was God's prerogative, apparently not.
I was waiting for someone to bring that up....it didn't take long.
I was waiting for someone to bring that up....it didn't take long.A valid point, isn't it?
NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.No good Catholic can in conscience attend a ѕуηαgσgυє on Friday or Saturday and the local parish on Sunday mornings. Nameless, faceless bytes of text on the internet ostensibly from New Zealand are not the Church.
It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.
We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.
He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.
He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
Is this Bp. Williamson's stance as well?
As far as I know, His Excellency has not red-lighted attending SSPX chapels.
Probably correct, but do you agree with Bishop Williamson on everything? Like his saying you can attend the Novus Ordo if it nourishes your faith?
A valid point, isn't it?
I think +W was referring to circuмstances just like Gwaredd Thomas has explained... how could one "red- light" such a scenario in these times?
You're very fortunate.Ouch! We've never heard of anything like this. There must be something in the water in certain parts of the country. Either that or some of the priests I mentioned in a previous post are some of +Fellay's yes men.
We were not so fortunate... our mission was told that we must sudmit, in principle, to the proposed conditions of the General Chapter in 2012. Unfortunately, we had to decline and now we are on very meager rations provided by others.
No good Catholic can in conscience attend a ѕуηαgσgυє on Friday or Saturday and the local parish on Sunday mornings. Nameless, faceless bytes of text on the internet ostensibly from New Zealand are not the Church.
The SSPX is Catholic.
No, I don't agree with +W on everything, but I'm not all that concerned that I don't agree on everything. I don't like that he bought that mansion on the east coast of the U.S., but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
Bishop Williamson didn't make a general statement that the Novus Ordo nourishes our faith. He stipulated that trads know better, and that they should avoid the Novus Ordo, and he was speaking specifically to a particular woman and her situation when he stated that. I don't have a problem with the circuмstances in which he said it.
I was amused by something that he said just before he answered the woman's question. He said something like...." I know that this going to sound like trad heresy," or something to that effect. What I like about Bishop Williamson is that he says what he thinks, and not necessarily what people want to hear.
Ouch! We've never heard of anything like this. There must be something in the water in certain parts of the country. Either that or some of the priests I mentioned in a previous post are some of +Fellay's yes men.
No, I don't agree with +W on everything, but I'm not all that concerned that I don't agree on everything. I don't like that he bought that mansion on the east coast of the U.S., but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.But he was right it is an untenable position for a Traditional Catholic to hold. If what he went on to say is true then there has been no need or justification for the SSPX, the consecrations or any of it. But, the SSPX has always been compromised on this issue, the only problem is a lot of Traditionals were under the mistaken impression that the SSPX was really opposed to the council and the New Mass. So the shock wasn't in what he said but that Traditionals woke up to what he was saying.
Bishop Williamson didn't make a general statement that the Novus Ordo nourishes our faith. He stipulated that trads know better, and that they should avoid the Novus Ordo, and he was speaking specifically to a particular woman and her situation when he stated that. I don't have a problem with the circuмstances in which he said it.
I was amused by something that he said just before he answered the woman's question. He said something like...." I know that this going to sound like trad heresy," or something to that effect. What I like about Bishop Williamson is that he says what he thinks, and not necessarily what people want to hear.
Whether the advice is general or specific it doesn't matter. He said it was possible to go "if it nourishes your faith". The SSPX (before 2012), never gave that as a reason to attend the Novus Ordo. It is entirely an invention of Bishop Williamson and contrary to common sense. The Novus Ordo can NEVER nourish ones faith because the thing is not Catholic. The people attending might be Catholic, but only God knows for certain. We judge the thing they are attending.
But he was right it is an untenable position for a Traditional Catholic to hold. If what he went on to say is true then there has been no need or justification for the SSPX, the consecrations or any of it. But, the SSPX has always been compromised on this issue, the only problem is a lot of Traditionals were under the mistaken impression that the SSPX was really opposed to the council and the New Mass. So the shock wasn't in what he said but that Traditionals woke up to what he was saying.
In these times, we cannot hope for perfection in clerics, we can only appreciate validity where it is found and try to ignore the rest.
To reiterate: Bishop Williamson has not, to my knowledge, red-lighted attending an SSPX chapel. Maybe that will change someday, if the SSPX formally reconciles with Rome.
Ha, Cheers back mate. :cheers: Yes, by all means, don't forget the pecan pie..
Ah, the pecan pie. Truth be told, my wife is an outstanding cook. All her recipes are made mostly from her long years engaging in the art. And it is an art. She adds spices to dishes not from recipes from experience. That's all I can say. Her spaghetti sauce is, indeed, a work of art..
.I'll see what I can do. Many of my wife 'recipes' are in her head. She doesn't use a set script. But, I'll talk to her when she gets home tonight. :ready-to-eat:
.
I realize this is off-topic but I don't know where else to put it except maybe a PM.
.
It would be great if you could post a thread in the Health and Nutrition sub-forum, Gwaredd, for your wife's pecan pie and pasta sauce!
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The post with this paragraph in it has been deleted:.
Historically, Bishop Williamson has been very weak on the question of Mass attendance. While Bishop Tissier has been strong..
.A Catholic "Flat-Earther"?? I thought one only found those nutters on Jєωtube. Hm, guess not. Pretty scary, what? 🙄
Historically, kiwiboy has shown himself to be a Pfeifferite flat-earther.
.
A Catholic "Flat-Earther"?? I thought one only found those nutters on Jєωtube. Hm, guess not. Pretty scary, what? 🙄
What's even scarier is that most Catholics believed in a flat-earth up until the sixteenth century or so. :o No Jєωtube around then, though. Thank goodness for Galileo, right?Ah, yes, your quite right. I recall reading somewhere that people were worried about sailing since they were fearful of falling off the end of the earth.
That is, Catholics believed in a flat-earth before the Reformation Protestants, deluded Catholics and Freemasons got a foot in the door of science and changed what Catholics traditionally believed.
Ah, yes, your quite right. I recall reading somewhere that people were worried about sailing since they were fearful of falling off the end of the earth.
Yes, I think you may be right. Little did they know that they could not fall off the flat earth, due to the ice wall that surrounds and protects the flat earth.Right again! I know this is true because I saw it on Jєωtube and this is a factual source of information. 🤣
;D
Ah, yes, your quite right. I recall reading somewhere that people were worried about sailing since they were fearful of falling off the end of the earth.That's not true. Queen Isabella was told by the Catholic scientists of the time, that Columbus should not attempt to sail to India because the circuмference of the earth was too big for him to make it with the amount of supplies he could carry. And they were right. If there had not been an unknown continent for them to land on, that is exactly what would have happened. Queen Isabella allowed the voyage, in spite of this, because, being extremely devout, she believed if there were any chance at all of bringing the Gospel to new people, the risk must be taken.
That's not true. Queen Isabella was told by the Catholic scientists of the time, that Columbus should not attempt to sail to India because the circuмference of the earth was too big for him to make it with the amount of supplies he could carry. And they were right. If there had not been an unknown continent for them to land on, that is exactly what would have happened. Queen Isabella allowed the voyage, in spite of this, because, being extremely devout, she believed if there were any chance at all of bringing the Gospel to new people, the risk must be taken.Come now Jaynek, we were just joking around. Don't always try to be so precise with "facts and figures". I'm sure both of us are aware of that. 😊
You probably did read it somewhere, though. This idea that Catholics were ignorant is so-called "Enlightenment" propaganda. Even the term "middle ages" comes from their false idea that the Roman Empire was civilized and so was the Renaissance, and the time in the middle was a time of ignorance and superstition (as they liked to label the true Faith.)
Right again! I know this is true because I saw it on Jєωtube and this is a factual source of information. 🤣
Come now Jaynek, we were just joking around. Don't always try to be so precise with "facts and figures". I'm sure both of us are aware of that. 😊You are joking. From Meg's posts in the Flat Earth subforum (where we really ought to discuss this if we want to continue), it appears that she actually does believe it.
You are joking. From Meg's posts in the Flat Earth subforum (where we really ought to discuss this if we want to continue), it appears that she actually does believe it.
Did Jєωtube exist when the Book of Genesis was written a long, long, time ago? I mean, it was Jєωs, after all, who wrote down God's word in Genesis, right?Sure, it existed, I saw it on Jєωtube. If I recall it was some kind of soup can and string contraption. Later, they made it so one could look inside the soup can and see images. Pretty neat, huh? Later, the Jooz saw Moses leading the folks through the Red Sea. Unfortunately, once they got to the other end, they fell off the side of the earth. That's what's known as the Lost Tribe. 🙄
Sure, it existed, I saw it on Jєωtube. If I recall it was some kind of soup can and string contraption. Later, they made it so one could look inside the soup can and see images. Pretty neat, huh? Later, the Jooz saw Moses leading the folks through the Red Sea.🙄
Pretty neat, huh? Later, the Jooz saw Moses leading the folks through the Red Sea. Unfortunately, once they got to the other end, they fell off the side of the earth. That's what's known as the Lost Tribe. 🙄
Uh....no....wait. Are you sure you're not getting your stories mixed up? Wasn't it Joseph Smith who invented Mormonism by looking at a rock inside of a hat? Then he wrote down the words that magically appeared on the rock, and....Wah Lah!....the Book of Mormon was born? Or something like that.No, I believe that was Joseph Stalin.
What's even scarier is that most Catholics believed in a flat-earth up until the sixteenth century or so. :o No Jєωtube around then, though. Thank goodness for Galileo, right?This looked like a serious statement to me, rather than a joke. Just in case Meg meant these incorrect claims:
That is, Catholics believed in a flat-earth before the Reformation Protestants, deluded Catholics and Freemasons got a foot in the door of science and changed what Catholics traditionally believed.
It is not difficult to see how the story of Columbus was adapted so that he became the figure of progress rather than a lucky man who profited from his error. According to Jeffrey Burton ussell here (http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/library/russell/FlatEarth.html), the invention of the flat Earth myth can be laid at the feet of the nineteenth century writer Washington Irving, who included it in his historical novel on Columbus, and the wider idea that the everyone in the Middle Ages was deluded has been widely accepted ever since.http://jameshannam.com/flatearth.htm (http://jameshannam.com/flatearth.htm)The myth that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat was given a massive boost by Andrew Dickson White's weighty tome The Warfare of Science with Theology (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/andrew_white/) published in 1896. This book has become something of a running joke among historians of science and it is dutifully mentioned as a prime example of misinformation in the preface of most modern works on science and religion. The flat Earth is discussed in chapter 2 (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/andrew_white/Chapter2.html) and one can almost sense White's confusion that hardly any of the sources support his hypothesis that Christians widely believed in it. He finds himself grudgingly admitting that St Clement, Origen, St Ambrose, St Augustine, St Isodore, St Albertus Magnus and St Thomas Aquinas all accepted the Earth was a globe - in other words none of the great doctors of the church had considered the matter in doubt. Although an analysis of what White actually says suggests he was aware that the flat Earth was largely a myth, he certainly gives an impression of ignorant Christians suppressing rational knowledge of its real shape.
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]:
No, I believe that was Joseph Stalin.
This looked like a serious statement to me, rather than a joke. Just in case Meg meant these incorrect claims:
http://jameshannam.com/flatearth.htm (http://jameshannam.com/flatearth.htm)
And speaking of St. Augustine believing the earth is a globe, he wrote::
Jayne, if you are going to seriously discuss the Flat Earth, then you ought to take your own advice and post it in the Flat Earth subforum."Flat Earth subforum". Whaaaat??
Jayne, if you are going to seriously discuss the Flat Earth, then you ought to take your own advice and post it in the Flat Earth subforum.If you were just joking when you falsely claimed that Catholics before the Reformation believed the world was flat , then there is no need for me to post there. Since it is difficult to tell what you really mean, it is not clear how or where I should respond.
Yes, I was mixing in truth with joking. It happens. Try to not worry about it too much.
If you were just joking when you falsely claimed that Catholics before the Reformation believed the world was flat , then there is no need for me to post there. Since it is difficult to tell what you really mean, it is not clear how or where I should respond.
Yeah, well, I guess so. 🤔
"Flat Earth subforum". Whaaaat??
I thought this was Catholic Info, not some Jootube love fest. 😳
Surprise! Surprise!
Yes, Cath Info actually has a FLAT EARTH subforum, and may I say that you are privileged to be a member of the ONLY Traditional Catholic forum that actually has its own FLAT EARTH subforum.
Isn't that awesome!?
:cheers:
Yes, quite so! :) I think that Stalin was Jєωιѕн, right?Some say he was, some say he wasn't. I do know, however, that as a young squirt he studied for the 'priesthood'. Obviously, it didn't take.
Yeah, well, I guess so. 🤔
Not to worry. The discussion of anything Flat Earth has been quite brief lately. Though, in the not-so-distant past, before you joined, the Flat earth discussions were quite....should I say....lively.Well, thanks, but I believe I'll take a pass. My interests tend to lay in other areas. 😊
Unfortunately, discussion of FE causes some anti-flat earth trads to go foaming-at-the-mouth-infuriated, almost causing them to pass out from the anxiety of thinking that there could actually be trads who believe in a Flat earth. Poor things. I do bear some responsibility for causing some of their great distress. Oh well.
Maybe Jayne will be brave enough to venture into the dreaded FE subforum to post her anxieties there. Can't wait.
:popcorn:
Well, thanks, but I believe I'll take a pass. My interests tend to lay in other areas. 😊
That's okay. In all seriousness, discussion of FE can be a bit of a distraction.Well, to be honest, even this blog can be a distraction especially if it keeps one from doing the things that need to get done. Like me for instance. 😤
Well, to be honest, even this blog can be a distraction especially if it keeps one from doing the things that need to get done. Like me for instance. 😤Oh, I absolutely agree with that! I keep telling myself to not spend so much time here, but here I am. Oh well.
It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years..
We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.
He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.
He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
"Flat Earth subforum". Whaaaat??Matthew decided to tidy up! They had to be confined to a ghetto, (wah lah, I mean voila!) as they were causing havoc with the rest of us reasonable folk.
I thought this was Catholic Info, not some Jootube love fest. 😳
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Historically, kiwiboy has shown himself to be a Pfeifferite flat-earther.
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JaynekI have conclusively shown this to be incorrect with my posts in the proper subforum. A few cherry-picked quotes from early writers do not disprove the consensus eventually reached by the Church.
You should read the following citations.
http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition
Showing clearly, it is NO myth to say that the Church was flat earth.
The us of Ptolomy's Almagest in the middle ages muddied the waters a bit, but overall most Catholics held to the truth.
."Perhaps you're unaware of the history of the Menzingen intrigue".
Why would you be excoriated for you position?
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Perhaps you're unaware of the history of the Menzingen intrigue.
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.I asked yesterday but I didn't get a response. Would someone please tell me what is a "PFEIFFERITE"?
Historically, kiwiboy has shown himself to be a Pfeifferite flat-earther.
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I have conclusively shown this to be incorrect with my posts in the proper subforum. A few cherry-picked quotes from early writers do not disprove the consensus eventually reached by the Church."...the Church was flat earth"❓
I asked yesterday but I didn't get a response. Would someone please tell me what is a "PFEIFFERITE"?It refers to someone who blindly follows and supports Father Pfeiffer and the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Sect in Boston, Kentucky.
It refers to someone who blindly follows and supports Father Pfeiffer and the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Sect in Boston, Kentucky.Ah, finally, thank you! 😊
"Perhaps you're unaware of the history of the Menzingen intrigue".
Yes, I am unaware. I don't keep up with all the politics of the SSPX; it interests me not at all. I go to Mass, pray my Rosary and try and keep my nose clean. I can't do anything about intrigues anyway. The reason that I thought I might be excoriated because there's are many folks here who have little use for the SSPX, that's all.
The menzingen intrigue is ultimately irrelevant."What matters is that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome so far".
What matters is that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome so far.
These put it under Rome, even if in an "imperfect" way. One bit of poison is enough to spoil the whole cake.
I don't agree with Fr. Pfeiffers disrespectful attitude towards the Bishops, and his arguments against them can be exaggerated. However on the issue of Mass attendance he is broadly speaking correct.
One priest who is a red-lighter is Fr. Edward MacDonald, who visits New Zealand from time to time. Another is Fr. Pivert in France. Neither of them are "Pfeifferites", but rather courageous priests who think for themselves. Would that most in the resistance act like that....
It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.not being critical but we should not be concerned only w/ those who cross our paths. We should go out of our way to talk to people about Jesus
We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.
He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.
He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.
Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.
I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
I must point this out: that it is a rare gift to be able to abstract from your own personal situation, and realize that others' situations are far different.Well Said Matthew, I agree 100% Thank you :applause:
For example, you seem to be at one of the best SSPX chapels in existence, going by your testimony and description. You don't speak much about propaganda, lies, manipulation of the Faithful, evidence of Modernist infection, spying on the Faithful, various tyrannical behavior, etc. but I assure you, these things have happened and are happening at other chapels.
I'm happy for you that you're on the path to salvation, and that your particular SSPX chapel seems to be the prudential answer in your case. For that matter, there is an older man at my old SSPX chapel who recently passed away -- if I were him, I might have done what he did -- that is to say, stay with the SSPX. For him, it was more important to get the Last Rites, go to weekly Mass, etc. than stand up for the future of Tradition and stand on one's principles. In 2012, he only had a few years of life left, and he has no Traditional children or grandchildren that I'm aware of.
That is why I have to say the decision is one of PRUDENCE, not FAITH or DOGMA. If it was a matter of Faith, then those who chose wrongly would literally be going to hell. But such is not the case. It's about prudence -- a subjective judgment we make based on the information we have, and our own precise situation.
The SSPX is a monolithic, multi-national corporation. But that doesn't mean that its priests all participate in one "hive mind" or some nonsense like that. They are all individual souls. Some are liberal, and some are not. But they are all loyal to the Monster at this time, and they all have to be subject to it, following its laws and directives, and that is the problem with SSPX chapels:
Even if you had the Cure of Ars offering daily Mass at your SSPX chapel, which happened to be built like a Cathedral, there is still the problem that your SSPX chapel is part of the SSPX Corporation with its liberal-ruled headquarters in Menzingen. You are going to have visits from the District Superior, etc. who will tell you that Vatican II isn't so bad, that we are excessive in our resistance to Vatican II, that we need to be more moderate, that Rome isn't so bad, etc.
Those things were all said recently at my SSPX chapel in San Antonio, by Fr. Wegner. I'm not going to expose my children to priests uttering such lies. Vatican II is heretical and I want no part of it. It IS a superheresy, the biggest crisis to ever befall the Church. I am Traditional Catholic, the son of Traditional Catholics, and was raised Traditional Catholic from birth. The only way to react to Modernism/Vatican II/Conciliar Church is COMPLETE ABSTINENCE, complete aloofness. Everything else is dangerous compromise, supping with the devil.
When someone tries to tone down my resistance and hatred for Vatican II, a huge alarm goes off and I put up a wall of separation.
Furthermore, the SSPX is Wal-mart, and the rest of the Trad world is like the mom & pop stores Wal-mart routinely puts out of business. By attending the SSPX and making donations every Sunday, you're feeding the monster.
As an organization, I hate the SSPX. Not the people in the organization, but the organization itself. Its leaders are my enemies, because they are enemies of the Faith. They are in the same category as Pope Francis, even if the latter is further along in the corruption process. I pray that they be converted and confess their mortal sins before they die. If I could make a phone call and the whole SSPX organization could be shut down and put out of business, I would do it in a heartbeat. The SSPX is worldly, corrupt, liberal, and compromising. They are using techniques normally associated with Freemasonic politicians.
NOTE: I didn't say I want to nuke all the priests, people, etc. I just said put the SSPX out of business. Believe me, those priests would all start independent chapels, and probably in the same places they are in now. But it would be without all the monolithic, Big Business attitude they have right now. Each chapel would be on its own. Some would be liberal, others would be great. It would all depend on the area, the priest, and the congregation.
The SSPX got too big, and for years they've had a problem with avarice (desiring to acquire real estate and power) and they think they ARE the Church. They look down on other non-SSPX Trad priests/groups. I STILL have to routinely chase these thoughts and prejudices out of my head, after attending an SSPX seminary, chapels, etc. for years. They seriously consider non-SSPX chapels and non-SSPX priests as automatically 2nd class or lower, as automatically suspect.
"What matters is that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome so far".
As I stated above I'm not really interested in agreements or non-agreements. I'm only interested in keeping myself, as much as I am able, free from serious sin, praying the Rosary, receiving the Sacraments and trying to lead the best Catholic life I can. To me, the rest is ALL irrelevant.
"What matters is that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome so far"..
As I stated above I'm not really interested in agreements or non-agreements. I'm only interested in keeping myself, as much as I am able, free from serious sin, praying the Rosary, receiving the Sacraments and trying to lead the best Catholic life I can. To me, the rest is ALL irrelevant.
It refers to someone who blindly follows and supports Father Pfeiffer and the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Sect in Boston, Kentucky..
.That about gets it, doesn't it? As if you sweep all of Father Pfeiffer's objections into a nice neat pile so they don't spill out onto the neat resistance floor.
That's what could be called a nice, superficial and inadequate definition. But it doesn't really matter, does it?
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After all, superficiality is the norm, and it gets a lot of popular appeal support, so it must be okay, right?
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