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Author Topic: Me and the SSPX  (Read 4918 times)

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Offline St Ignatius

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Re: Me and the SSPX
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2017, 08:18:22 PM »
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  • Is this Bp. Williamson's stance as well?

    As far as I know, His Excellency has not red-lighted attending SSPX chapels.

    I think +W was referring to circuмstances just like Gwaredd Thomas has explained... how could one "red- light" such a scenario in these times?


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #31 on: November 25, 2017, 11:55:11 PM »
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  • Probably correct, but do you agree with Bishop Williamson on everything? Like his saying you can attend the Novus Ordo if it nourishes your faith?

    No, I don't agree with +W on everything, but I'm not all that concerned that I don't agree on everything. I don't like that he bought that mansion on the east coast of the U.S., but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    Bishop Williamson didn't make a general statement that the Novus Ordo nourishes our faith. He stipulated that trads know better, and that they should avoid the Novus Ordo, and he was speaking specifically to a particular woman and her situation when he stated that. I don't have a problem with the circuмstances in which he said it.

    I was amused by something that he said just before he answered the woman's question. He said something like...." I know that this going to sound like trad heresy," or something to that effect. What I like about Bishop Williamson is that he says what he thinks, and not necessarily what people want to hear.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #32 on: November 26, 2017, 12:04:44 AM »
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  • A valid point, isn't it?

    Yes, it is, but I suppose we might disagree about why it's valid.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #33 on: November 26, 2017, 12:08:47 AM »
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  • I think +W was referring to circuмstances just like Gwaredd Thomas has explained... how could one "red- light" such a scenario in these times?

    I think I agree. We get the sacraments where we can, while trying to avoid as much nonsense as possible. Not always an easy thing to do. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #34 on: November 26, 2017, 04:45:30 AM »
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  • You're very fortunate.

    We were not so fortunate... our mission was told that we must sudmit, in principle, to the proposed conditions of the  General Chapter in 2012. Unfortunately, we had to decline and now we are on very meager rations provided by others.
    Ouch! We've never heard of anything like this. There must be something in the water in certain parts of the country. Either that or some of the priests I mentioned in a previous post are some of +Fellay's yes men.
    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #35 on: November 26, 2017, 09:04:53 AM »
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  • No good Catholic can in conscience attend a ѕуηαgσgυє on Friday or Saturday and the local parish on Sunday mornings. Nameless, faceless bytes of text on the internet ostensibly from New Zealand are not the Church.

    The SSPX is Catholic.

    Gosh, well if you say so...
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #36 on: November 26, 2017, 09:07:23 AM »
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  • No, I don't agree with +W on everything, but I'm not all that concerned that I don't agree on everything. I don't like that he bought that mansion on the east coast of the U.S., but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    Bishop Williamson didn't make a general statement that the Novus Ordo nourishes our faith. He stipulated that trads know better, and that they should avoid the Novus Ordo, and he was speaking specifically to a particular woman and her situation when he stated that. I don't have a problem with the circuмstances in which he said it.

    I was amused by something that he said just before he answered the woman's question. He said something like...." I know that this going to sound like trad heresy," or something to that effect. What I like about Bishop Williamson is that he says what he thinks, and not necessarily what people want to hear.

    Whether the advice is general or specific it doesn't matter. He said it was possible to go "if it nourishes your faith". The SSPX (before 2012), never gave that as a reason to attend the Novus Ordo. It is entirely an invention of Bishop Williamson and contrary to common sense. The Novus Ordo can NEVER nourish ones faith because the thing is not Catholic. The people attending might be Catholic, but only God knows for certain. We judge the thing they are attending.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #37 on: November 26, 2017, 09:08:27 AM »
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  • Ouch! We've never heard of anything like this. There must be something in the water in certain parts of the country. Either that or some of the priests I mentioned in a previous post are some of +Fellay's yes men.

    Heresy is not always implemented with the same rigor everywhere. But it is still heresy
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #38 on: November 26, 2017, 10:38:06 AM »
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  • No, I don't agree with +W on everything, but I'm not all that concerned that I don't agree on everything. I don't like that he bought that mansion on the east coast of the U.S., but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    Bishop Williamson didn't make a general statement that the Novus Ordo nourishes our faith. He stipulated that trads know better, and that they should avoid the Novus Ordo, and he was speaking specifically to a particular woman and her situation when he stated that. I don't have a problem with the circuмstances in which he said it.

    I was amused by something that he said just before he answered the woman's question. He said something like...." I know that this going to sound like trad heresy," or something to that effect. What I like about Bishop Williamson is that he says what he thinks, and not necessarily what people want to hear.
    But he was right it is an untenable position for a Traditional Catholic to hold. If what he went on to say is true then there has been no need or justification for the SSPX, the consecrations or any of it.  But, the SSPX has always been compromised on this issue, the only problem is a lot of Traditionals were under the mistaken impression that the SSPX was really opposed to the council and the New Mass. So the shock wasn't in what he said but that Traditionals woke up to what he was saying.
    In these times, we cannot hope for perfection in clerics, we can only appreciate validity where it is found and try to ignore the rest.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #39 on: November 26, 2017, 03:05:20 PM »
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  • Whether the advice is general or specific it doesn't matter. He said it was possible to go "if it nourishes your faith". The SSPX (before 2012), never gave that as a reason to attend the Novus Ordo. It is entirely an invention of Bishop Williamson and contrary to common sense. The Novus Ordo can NEVER nourish ones faith because the thing is not Catholic. The people attending might be Catholic, but only God knows for certain. We judge the thing they are attending.

    I'm going by what +W himself said. If you think he was wrong, that's fine. I don't have a problem with the situation, or what he said, and that's not going to change.

    To reiterate: Bishop Williamson has not, to my knowledge, red-lighted attending an SSPX chapel. Maybe that will change someday, if the SSPX formally reconciles with Rome.

    As an aside, the SSPX priest today, during the homily, spoke out quite strongly against Vll, and religious liberty in particular. I see that as a good thing. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #40 on: November 26, 2017, 03:10:54 PM »
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  • But he was right it is an untenable position for a Traditional Catholic to hold. If what he went on to say is true then there has been no need or justification for the SSPX, the consecrations or any of it.  But, the SSPX has always been compromised on this issue, the only problem is a lot of Traditionals were under the mistaken impression that the SSPX was really opposed to the council and the New Mass. So the shock wasn't in what he said but that Traditionals woke up to what he was saying.
    In these times, we cannot hope for perfection in clerics, we can only appreciate validity where it is found and try to ignore the rest.

    I'm not going to hash over the situation in great detail. If you have an issue with it, that's fine. Most who post here do, since most trads are easily offended. It's no surprise that they don't like what he said. That's just how it goes. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #41 on: November 26, 2017, 03:41:43 PM »
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  • To reiterate: Bishop Williamson has not, to my knowledge, red-lighted attending an SSPX chapel. Maybe that will change someday, if the SSPX formally reconciles with Rome.


    Historically, Bishop Williamson has been very weak on the question of Mass attendance. While Bishop Tissier has been strong.

    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #42 on: November 27, 2017, 01:18:38 PM »
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  • .

    Ha, Cheers back mate.  :cheers: Yes, by all means, don't forget the pecan pie. 
    .
    I realize this is off-topic but I don't know where else to put it except maybe a PM.
    .
    It would be great if you could post a thread in the Health and Nutrition sub-forum, Gwaredd, for your wife's pecan pie and pasta sauce!
    .
    The post with this paragraph in it has been deleted:
    Quote
    Ah, the pecan pie. Truth be told, my wife is an outstanding cook. All her recipes are made mostly from her long years engaging in the art. And it is an art. She adds spices to dishes not from recipes from experience. That's all I can say. Her spaghetti sauce is, indeed, a work of art.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #43 on: November 27, 2017, 01:22:39 PM »
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  • .
    .
    I realize this is off-topic but I don't know where else to put it except maybe a PM.
    .
    It would be great if you could post a thread in the Health and Nutrition sub-forum, Gwaredd, for your wife's pecan pie and pasta sauce!
    .
    The post with this paragraph in it has been deleted:.
    I'll see what I can do. Many of my wife 'recipes' are in her head. She doesn't use a set script. But, I'll talk to her when she gets home tonight. :ready-to-eat:
    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #44 on: November 27, 2017, 01:28:22 PM »
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  • Historically, Bishop Williamson has been very weak on the question of Mass attendance. While Bishop Tissier has been strong.
    .
    Historically, kiwiboy has shown himself to be a Pfeifferite flat-earther.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.