Author Topic: Me and the SSPX  (Read 2736 times)

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Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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Me and the SSPX
« on: November 24, 2017, 05:57:11 PM »
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  • It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.

    We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.

    He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.

    He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.

    Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.

    I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 06:02:06 PM »
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  • You are blessed by God to have a Holy Priest (and friend).    

    Yes, save our souls.  Pray for my husband and me.
    On December 14th.  6 month anniversary death of our beloved Pastor and friend.  May he RIP. 

    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 06:11:38 PM »
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  • It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.

    We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.

    He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.

    He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.

    Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.

    I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!
    Quite edified, really.

    Would like to hear a bit more about the pecan pie, however.

    You have cut to the quick:

    +BW once told me, "Salvation is all that matters.  Everything else is peanuts."

    It seems you have understood that much, and that much is enough.

    Not trying to be "paternalistic" or condescending; good judgment on the forums is rare enough to warrant a bit of notice.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 07:01:23 PM »
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  • Gwaredd,
    You have a good, a wise, and a realistic view of things.  Much the same as my own, including my beloved wife's cooking as well as her goodness.
    If you have a good priest, why look elsewhere as there are so few of them who come into our lives.

    Affiliations and factions mean nothing in the greater schema, it is the Religion and the Truth which will save our souls.


    Gum beannaicheadh ​​Dia thu


    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 07:05:57 PM »
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  • Gwaredd,
    You have a good, a wise, and a realistic view of things.  Much the same as my own, including my beloved wife's cooking as well as her goodness.
    If you have a good priest, why look elsewhere as there are so few of them who come into our lives.

    Affiliations and factions mean nothing in the greater schema, it is the Religion and the Truth which will save our souls.


    Gum beannaicheadh ​​Dia thu

    A chi hefyd. 😊 In case anyone is interested chi is pronounced klee and hefyd is hefid. Now, didn't that make your day? 🤣 Well, I'm out, must go and pray my Rosary. I wish everyone a good and restful evening.


    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 08:35:45 AM »
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  • It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.

    Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.

    Well said Thomas. Unfortunately my own experience of the SSPX V Resistance does not leave me with the 'respect' you write of. By all means one must respect any individual's conscience in this matter, but what I have seen with my own eyes does not deserve respect. I have seen elderly taken aside and frightened into abandoning their daily masses in a church that is designed to reflect Catholic history, abandoning their numerous devotions etc., replacing these with a sunday Mass in a hotel room. I see some of the active resistance attend Mass on special days of devotion and then go absent again. I saw one Resistance woman bury her brother in a SSPX chapel never to be seen again.

    If one word of Modernism had been uttered in the last six years in this same church I would have joined them. But nothing, absolutely nothing had changed, except the loss of so many Masses. Who in the resistance will make up to the Lord and souls for such losses?

    I have written to Bishop Williamson asking him who will replace these Masses lost. Needless to say the answer I got totally avoided any such answer.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 08:50:57 AM »
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  • SSPX, the resistance ,  NO etc.  The church is divided into so many cliques.    



    The 4 marks of The Roman Catholic Church are
    One, Holy , Catholic and Apostolic.  

    We are CATHOLICS!
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 08:52:25 AM »
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  •  :cheers:And Pecan pie
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 10:22:04 AM »
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  • It has occurred to me that I haven't stated my position with regard to the SSPX. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to do so. My position is that I have no position. We attend an SSPX Church since it's only 20 minutes from home and have done so for over 20 years.

    We have an outstanding priest, who, incidentally, has the complete set of +Williamson's lectures on DVD. He is a graduate of Columbia University with a degree in civil engineering and worked for a prominent Boston consulting firm prior to entering the seminary. So, unlike some of the other newly ordained priests, he's had some experience in the "world". He was also a running back for the Columbia Lions prior to blowing out his knee.

    He is filled with zeal for the salvation of souls and urges us all to have the same zeal. His sermons are outstanding; he often interjects them with personal experiences he's had, in the world or spiritual ones related to the world. He's the best priest we've ever had. I've enjoyed many personal conversations with him especially when he joined us for Christmas dinner last year. And, as he indicated, may do so again this year.

    He went nuts over my wife's pecan pie: pun intended.

    Finally, I should add, that I have no interest in the politics of the SSPX vs Resistance. All have their reasons, and I respect them. My principal goal is to hopefully save my soul, aid my wife in saving her's and anyone else who may cross my path.

    I guess you could say this is my manifesto. If I'm to be excoriated for my position, so be it. Cheers!

    I must point this out: that it is a rare gift to be able to abstract from your own personal situation, and realize that others' situations are far different.

    For example, you seem to be at one of the best SSPX chapels in existence, going by your testimony and description. You don't speak much about propaganda, lies, manipulation of the Faithful, evidence of Modernist infection, spying on the Faithful, various tyrannical behavior, etc. but I assure you, these things have happened and are happening at other chapels.

    I'm happy for you that you're on the path to salvation, and that your particular SSPX chapel seems to be the prudential answer in your case. For that matter, there is an older man at my old SSPX chapel who recently passed away -- if I were him, I might have done what he did -- that is to say, stay with the SSPX. For him, it was more important to get the Last Rites, go to weekly Mass, etc. than stand up for the future of Tradition and stand on one's principles. In 2012, he only had a few years of life left, and he has no Traditional children or grandchildren that I'm aware of.

    That is why I have to say the decision is one of PRUDENCE, not FAITH or DOGMA.  If it was a matter of Faith, then those who chose wrongly would literally be going to hell. But such is not the case. It's about prudence -- a subjective judgment we make based on the information we have, and our own precise situation.

    The SSPX is a monolithic, multi-national corporation. But that doesn't mean that its priests all participate in one "hive mind" or some nonsense like that. They are all individual souls. Some are liberal, and some are not. But they are all loyal to the Monster at this time, and they all have to be subject to it, following its laws and directives, and that is the problem with SSPX chapels:

    Even if you had the Cure of Ars offering daily Mass at your SSPX chapel, which happened to be built like a Cathedral, there is still the problem that your SSPX chapel is part of the SSPX Corporation with its liberal-ruled headquarters in Menzingen. You are going to have visits from the District Superior, etc. who will tell you that Vatican II isn't so bad, that we are excessive in our resistance to Vatican II, that we need to be more moderate, that Rome isn't so bad, etc.

    Those things were all said recently at my SSPX chapel in San Antonio, by Fr. Wegner. I'm not going to expose my children to priests uttering such lies. Vatican II is heretical and I want no part of it. It IS a superheresy, the biggest crisis to ever befall the Church. I am Traditional Catholic, the son of Traditional Catholics, and was raised Traditional Catholic from birth. The only way to react to Modernism/Vatican II/Conciliar Church is COMPLETE ABSTINENCE, complete aloofness. Everything else is dangerous compromise, supping with the devil.

    When someone tries to tone down my resistance and hatred for Vatican II, a huge alarm goes off and I put up a wall of separation.

    Furthermore, the SSPX is Wal-mart, and the rest of the Trad world is like the mom & pop stores Wal-mart routinely puts out of business. By attending the SSPX and making donations every Sunday, you're feeding the monster.

    As an organization, I hate the SSPX. Not the people in the organization, but the organization itself. Its leaders are my enemies, because they are enemies of the Faith. They are in the same category as Pope Francis, even if the latter is further along in the corruption process. I pray that they be converted and confess their mortal sins before they die. If I could make a phone call and the whole SSPX organization could be shut down and put out of business, I would do it in a heartbeat. The SSPX is worldly, corrupt, liberal, and compromising. They are using techniques normally associated with Freemasonic politicians.

    NOTE: I didn't say I want to nuke all the priests, people, etc. I just said put the SSPX out of business. Believe me, those priests would all start independent chapels, and probably in the same places they are in now. But it would be without all the monolithic, Big Business attitude they have right now. Each chapel would be on its own. Some would be liberal, others would be great. It would all depend on the area, the priest, and the congregation.

    The SSPX got too big, and for years they've had a problem with avarice (desiring to acquire real estate and power) and they think they ARE the Church. They look down on other non-SSPX Trad priests/groups. I STILL have to routinely chase these thoughts and prejudices out of my head, after attending an SSPX seminary, chapels, etc. for years. They seriously consider non-SSPX chapels and non-SSPX priests as automatically 2nd class or lower, as automatically suspect.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 10:36:02 AM »
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  • Anyone who criticizes having to go to a hotel room for Mass hasn't been Trad long, and/or doesn't understand what the Trad movement is all about.

    The Trad movement is about keeping the Faith, and keeping oneself unsullied from the influences of Modernism and Vatican II.

    We are in lifeboats. Lifeboats are USUALLY rustic. And in fact, more often than not, when the lifeboats get too comfy, people start mistaking the lifeboat for the sinking boat they left! That's what happened to the SSPX. The SSPX did such a good job re-creating the Church: a network of chapels, seminaries, ordinations, retreat centers, parochial schools, etc. that some people think the Crisis is over, and that the SSPX *IS* the Church!
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    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 11:05:44 AM »
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  • Going to be yet again, the little boy who says the emperor has no clothes.

    NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.

    The reasoning is the same as not attending the indult Mass.

    One of the saints in the time of the Arian crises refused to accept Holy Communion from an Arian Bishop. Perfectly validly ordained and consecrated, perfectly "traditional", but he was an arian and in union with the arian heresy.

    Those who are in union with the modernist heresy, are in the exact same way, to be avoided.

    The SSPX is included in this because it has already made 4 agreements with Rome.

    1. Holy Orders,
    2. Confessions
    3. Matrimony (will be the most obvious to people)
    4. The deal with the Argentinian government and Rome recognising the SSPX.

    This position has nothing to do with Sedevacantism or some kind of extremism, or flat earth(some will think that!)

    It is just the position that the SSPX has held for many years (before the resistance), and is based on the moral theology and practice of the Church of all ages.

    AMDG
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 11:17:26 AM »
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  • Anyone who criticizes having to go to a hotel room for Mass hasn't been Trad long, and/or doesn't understand what the Trad movement is all about.

    The Trad movement is about keeping the Faith, and keeping oneself unsullied from the influences of Modernism and Vatican II.

    We are in lifeboats. Lifeboats are USUALLY rustic. And in fact, more often than not, when the lifeboats get too comfy, people start mistaking the lifeboat for the sinking boat they left! That's what happened to the SSPX. The SSPX did such a good job re-creating the Church: a network of chapels, seminaries, ordinations, retreat centers, parochial schools, etc. that some people think the Crisis is over, and that the SSPX *IS* the Church!
    In reading some of the horror stories regarding the various SSPX chapels, we consider ourselves very fortunate to have what we have. We have never had a pastor who touted some of the things that a few have posted. However, +Fellay is an entirely different matter.

    As an example, I had a talk with our former pastor about the situation with +Fellay and Rome. I asked him if +Fellay actually signed this spurious agreement with Rome what would be your position. He replied that in that case, we could not follow him. Our current pastor is of the same mind; in fact, more so. In his sermons, he often demonizes the current Roman regime and warns the faithful that attending a Novus Ordo "mass" would be gravely sinful, since these masses so-called make a mockery out of the Holy Sacrifice. Nor, have we ever heard him claim that the SSPX "is the Church". In fact, he has often stated that "we are in a holding pattern" unless and until there is a complete return to Tradition on the part of Rome. As I stated above, +Fellay is a different matter. What he has in mind or what his real intent is to forge some sort of "agreement" that would essentially put the SSPX out of business. ++Lefebvre was lied to by JPII regarding the ordinations in 1988, so does +Fellay really believe that somehow the situation has changed in 2017?

    Personally, I wouldn't trust +Feally to run a carwash much less allow him to run a priestly fraternity: run it into the ground probably but certainly not build it up. As far as finances are concerned, I've watched this with much trepidation. It seems that +Fellay wants to build is fraternity using the Roman model. On the other hand, one has to admit that the SSPX, despite what anyone may think, is growing: a lot. Therefore, I guess it's not surprising that they have built a new seminary in Virginia as the one in Winona was old and dilapidated.

    Finally, it's extremely unfortunate that many have experienced such challenges to your Faith by some of the priests in the SSPX; but, as one SSPX priest explained to me +Fellay has his own, hand-picked sycophants who will do anything he tells them. Thus, +Fellay gets "elected" Superior General year in and year out.

    That's pretty much my take on it for what it's worth.

    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: November 25, 2017, 11:31:51 AM »
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  • Going to be yet again, the little boy who says the emperor has no clothes.

    NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX.

    The reasoning is the same as not attending the indult Mass.

    One of the saints in the time of the Arian crises refused to accept Holy Communion from an Arian Bishop. Perfectly validly ordained and consecrated, perfectly "traditional", but he was an arian and in union with the arian heresy.

    Those who are in union with the modernist heresy, are in the exact same way, to be avoided.

    The SSPX is included in this because it has already made 4 agreements with Rome.

    1. Holy Orders,
    2. Confessions
    3. Matrimony (will be the most obvious to people)
    4. The deal with the Argentinian government and Rome recognising the SSPX.

    This position has nothing to do with Sedevacantism or some kind of extremism, or flat earth(some will think that!)

    It is just the position that the SSPX has held for many years (before the resistance), and is based on the moral theology and practice of the Church of all ages.

    AMDG
    "The SSPX is included in this because it has already made [four] agreements with Rome".

    By stating that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome implies that the whole society has made these four agreements. No. These "agreements" can be laid squarely on the shoulders of +Fellay and a few of his henchmen. All the priests we've had have never proclaimed that they thought these so-called agreements were/are a good thing. Maybe this is true with some SSPX priests but this has not been our experience.

    Your comments seem a bit strident whereby you wish to toss out the baby with the bath water.
    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: November 25, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »
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  • "The SSPX is included in this because it has already made [four] agreements with Rome".

    By stating that the SSPX has made four agreements with Rome implies that the whole society has made these four agreements. No. These "agreements" can be laid squarely on the shoulders of +Fellay and a few of his henchmen. All the priests we've had have never proclaimed that they thought these so-called agreements were/are a good thing. Maybe this is true with some SSPX priests but this has not been our experience.

    Your comments seem a bit strident whereby you wish to toss out the baby with the bath water.

    If the truth is "strident" then so be it.

    The whole SSPX has made these agreements because the superior has made them. This is the whole point of having a superior of anything. So that one person speaks for many.

    The subjective opinion of individual priests is irrelevant. They are objectively tied into the now Neo-Modernist SSPX.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

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    Offline Gwaredd Thomas

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    Re: Me and the SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: November 25, 2017, 11:59:42 AM »
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  • If the truth is "strident" then so be it.

    The whole SSPX has made these agreements because the superior has made them. This is the whole point of having a superior of anything. So that one person speaks for many.

    The subjective opinion of individual priests is irrelevant. They are objectively tied into the now Neo-Modernist SSPX.
    "NO GOOD CATHOLIC CAN IN CONSCIENCE ATTEND THE SSPX".

    Therefore, I'm a bad Catholic. So, unless I follow your path, whatever it is, I'm going to hell with my shoes and socks on, is that correct? And, here all along, I thought that I only had to account to God for my choices be they good or bad. Now, it seems, I have to also render an account to an uneducated layman for my behaviour.

    Let me ask you, what's more important, saving my soul or following your advice? Finally, from where do you derive your authority to render such a judgement? I thought that that was God's prerogative, apparently not.
    Dduw bendithia chi! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

     

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