Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend  (Read 2897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2019, 12:31:51 PM »
I personally wouldn't trade bible verses with the heretic. Instead, try the approach that "the church is the teacher of mankind,not the Bible". In this forum's library I think you can find an apologetics article
on this topic by the famous Jesuit, Father Arnold Damen, who came to America in the 1880s. He battled the protestants from the east coast to the Mississippi and made hundreds of converts. He also founded Loyola University in Chicago. The article (his sermon) is only about 20 pages. But it is pure logic. Even if your friend doesn't convert, you will have gained a lot of ammunition for future confrontations.
This.^^^

Below are short snips from 2 different sermons given by Fr. Wathen that might help.

The Bible and the Missal @ 8:28


"…Catholics do not read the bible in the same way [as protestants]… because Catholics do not read the bible with the idea of defending their faith through the passages.

And I remind you that whenever you do get into a discussion with non-Catholics on the subject of religion, do not let them begin to quote the bible to you. You should say: “Oh no, if we’re going to talk religion, we’re not going to refer to the bible, because you and I think of the bible in totally different ways. You’re not willing to accept my view of the bible, why should I accept yours?”

For example, we understand that not the bible, but the Church is the source of our faith, and the Church points to the bible as a reference. In other words, the bible for us Catholics is like a text book, or a manual, or a prayer book.

But the protestants look to the bible as the chief source of the teaching of his religion, unless you can overcome that disparity you should not discuss the bible in these kinds of discussions. Of course without the bible, the protestant has nothing to talk about because he cannot talk about history, protestants have no history to speak of…."  




Outside the Church there is no salvation @ 11:00

"… concerning those who are not in the Catholic Church, by what power will they be saved? Let us grant that they cannot save themselves anymore than any man can go to the moon without some kind of help.

The power of salvation comes from Christ Himself, as Christ said, without Me you can do nothing. When He said without me you can do nothing, He meant literally nothing. You cannot take that first step without Christ.

 And you will say; well they believe in Christ, and my answer is, you forget that Christ and the Church are one. If you separate the Church from Christ, you have sought to divide Christ. There is no such thing as Christ without the Church because the Church is His Mystical Body.

 As St Augustine referred to this mystery, the Church is with Christ, the whole Christ, there is no salvation independently of the Church anymore than there is salvation independently of Christ. You can never separate Christ from the Church because the two are one.

And this is of course the great heresy of Protestantism, they dare to separate salvation from Christ because they separate salvation from the Church. And I’m going to ask you, by what power can they be saved?..."

Re: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2019, 01:18:24 PM »
I've been trying to convert my brother, a Protestant (Seventh-Day Adventist now), for 20 years.
He rejects all logic, all truth, St. John chapter 6, and all history.  He is not guided by his mind.
He is guided by his will. 

He does not want the Catholic Church or anything it says.  He believes. as many Protestants do,
that the Papacy took over the Church of Christ about the year 313 and has corrupted it.

He believes that Ellen Gould White is a prophetess sent by God for our modern times, even
though her prophecies have been proven false.  He believes that Our Lady of Fatima is the
work of the devil.

How to convert someone like this?  As long as he is directed by his will, it's impossible, unless
God sends some kind of chastisement. 

I've heard from experts that if a man is sincerely seeking the truth, then he can be converted.
How many are seeking the truth, now days?  Not many.  They know what they want and they
have a will that rejects anything they don't like.

I've had people tell me that they are god !!!





Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 02:10:12 PM »
I've heard from experts that if a man is sincerely seeking the truth, then he can be converted.
How many are seeking the truth, now days?  Not many.  They know what they want and they
have a will that rejects anything they don't like.

I've had people tell me that they are god !!!
Same here, I got into it with a 'prot minister in training' I worked with once who totally scoffed at all things Catholic saying he was god, that we are all gods, popes are devils and etc,. Another prot I worked with who was raised in the NO and converted to prot preacher in prison (he read the whole prot bible over 100 times) said Luther was the world's greatest theologian, the bible alone is necessary for salvation (but only the KJV from 1611) and a whole slew of other tired old idiocies.

It boils down to either they seek the truth, or they reject it, wanting absolutely nothing to do with it, while continuing to insist that they are not doing so.  

We know with certainty this much because it is from God Himself when He promised:"For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened," which is how we know that prots do not seek the truth, rather, they blatantly reject it.

Re: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 06:12:23 PM »
This is what St Paul advises Timothy on this question:

But flee thou youthful desires, and pursue justice, faith, charity, and peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. [23] And avoid foolish and unlearned questions, knowing that they beget strifes. [24]But the servant of the Lord must not wrangle: but be mild towards all men, apt to teach, patient, [25] With modesty admonishing them that resist the truth: if peradventure God may give them repentance to know the truth, [26] And they may recover themselves from the snares of the devil, by whom they are held captive at his will.”

Re: matthew 27:52 trying to convert friend
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2019, 08:55:35 PM »
This is what St Paul advises Timothy on this question:

But flee thou youthful desires, and pursue justice, faith, charity, and peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. [23] And avoid foolish and unlearned questions, knowing that they beget strifes. [24]But the servant of the Lord must not wrangle: but be mild towards all men, apt to teach, patient, [25] With modesty admonishing them that resist the truth: if peradventure God may give them repentance to know the truth, [26] And they may recover themselves from the snares of the devil, by whom they are held captive at his will.”
I may have trouble with the admonishing and modesty part, it seems to me people don’t like being admonished no matter how i deliver and i get flack for thinking i know it all