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Author Topic: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?  (Read 1691 times)

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Re: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 06:23:07 AM »
On Stephen Heiner's website, he sells one of Muller's books and below it has this disclaimer from +Sanborn.


Disclaimer
Father Muller, in another work, denied Baptism of Desire. To deny Baptism of Desire, however, is contrary to the teaching of the Council of Trent, Pope Pius IX, Pope Pius XII, as well as to the teaching of Saint Augustine, Saint Ambrose, Saint Thomas Aquinas, Saint Robert Bellarmine, all of them canonized Doctors of the Church, as well as to the teaching of all Catholic theologians, and to the common teaching of the Catholic Church as expressed in its catechisms. Nonetheless, there is no trace of this error in this work of Father Muller. Consequently I approve of this book, but at the same time I caution the reader against Father Muller’s error in another work. – Bishop Sanborn


https://www.truerestoration.org/press/the-sinners-return-to-god/
Very interesting observation LeDeg, however, Sanborn believes in salvation for Muslim. Jews, Hindus..... by their belief in a God that rewards, so his definition of Baptism of Desire is very broad. I'd have to see where Fr. Muller denied baptism of desire of the catechumen and for what reason, though it would not surprise if he did. Like I said, the subject of the salvation of a catechumen by baptism of desire is something that could be discussed with the likes of Fr. Muller, St. Thomas, and St. Alphonsus Ligouri since they limited BOD to the catechumen. 

I do not believe in BOD or BOB of any kind.

Re: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 02:42:54 PM »
Catholic Family News (John Vennari) in the later 1990's (if I remember correctly) ran a long series over many issues on Fr. Muller's teachings on EENS, it was at the end that they mentioned Muller's belief in BOD and BOB of the catechumen. I also remember reading that Fr. Feeney at one time believed likewise, but later changed. That limited BOD is something that could be discussed with Fr. Muller and anyone who writes (believes) as he did, in the limited to catechumen BOD, however, there is practically no  one today who believes as Fr. Muller, so it is pointless to discuss the subject with them, as they do not believe in the limited BOD of Fr. Muller, St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus Ligouri. The 99% of so-called BODers today, believe that anyone can be saved by God in any religion.
Dear LeDeg,
Come to think of it, I don't think I "remembered correctly", for I'm almost certain now that the series of articles in CFN were from Bp. George Hay. 


Re: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 07:23:32 PM »
Very interesting observation LeDeg, however, Sanborn believes in salvation for Muslim. Jews, Hindus..... by their belief in a God that rewards, so his definition of Baptism of Desire is very broad. I'd have to see where Fr. Muller denied baptism of desire of the catechumen and for what reason, though it would not surprise if he did. Like I said, the subject of the salvation of a catechumen by baptism of desire is something that could be discussed with the likes of Fr. Muller, St. Thomas, and St. Alphonsus Ligouri since they limited BOD to the catechumen.

I do not believe in BOD or BOB of any kind.



A little confusion is bound to creep in after expounding upon "vacant seats" for over 40 years.
  

Re: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2019, 08:22:10 PM »
On Stephen Heiner's website, he sells one of Muller's books and below it has this disclaimer from +Sanborn.


Disclaimer
Father Muller, in another work, denied Baptism of Desire. To deny Baptism of Desire, however, is contrary to the teaching of the Council of Trent, Pope Pius IX, Pope Pius XII, as well as to the teaching of Saint Augustine, Saint Ambrose, Saint Thomas Aquinas, Saint Robert Bellarmine, all of them canonized Doctors of the Church, as well as to the teaching of all Catholic theologians, and to the common teaching of the Catholic Church as expressed in its catechisms. Nonetheless, there is no trace of this error in this work of Father Muller. Consequently I approve of this book, but at the same time I caution the reader against Father Muller’s error in another work. – Bishop Sanborn


https://www.truerestoration.org/press/the-sinners-return-to-god/
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I suspect that Sanborn figured it was his pastoral duty to refrain from mentioning the title in which this denial occurs, but I would like to know.  It stands to reason that he speaks of Mueller's The Catholic Dogma: [EENS], since (among his proliferate output) that title is most directly concerned with such relevant questions.  But the expression "baptism of desire" never appears there, so I'm not sure what Sanborn is talking about.  I would like to know, though.
.

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Re: Fr. Müller and Fr. Feeney-Any Differences with EENS?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2019, 08:29:54 PM »
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I suspect that Sanborn figured it was his pastoral duty to refrain from mentioning the title in which this denial occurs, but I would like to know.  It stands to reason that he speaks of Mueller's The Catholic Dogma: [EENS], since (among his proliferate output) that title is most directly concerned with such relevant questions.  But the expression "baptism of desire" never appears there, so I'm not sure what Sanborn is talking about.  I would like to know, though.
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I second this. Does anyone know what book he’s talking about?