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Author Topic: Marriage and Protestants  (Read 1740 times)

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Offline love alabama

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Marriage and Protestants
« on: October 15, 2011, 10:26:43 AM »
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  • Are marriages between say Southern Baptists valid in the eyes of God?

    If they had children and they converted to the Catholic Faith would the children be legitimate?

    Would they have to be remarried in the Catholic Church?


    Offline Caraffa

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    « Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 05:37:14 PM »
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  • Quote
    Are marriages between say Southern Baptists valid in the eyes of God?


    Yes.

    Quote
    If they had children and they converted to the Catholic Faith would the children be legitimate?


    Yes, and the children would still be legitimate even if the parents did not convert.

    Quote
    Would they have to be remarried in the Catholic Church?


    No. Marriage has always existed, Our Lord simply raised it to a sacrament that confers grace.
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    « Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 08:37:49 PM »
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  • I have heard that you don't need a priest to get married.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 09:04:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    I have heard that you don't need a priest to get married.


    There are cases where that is true.  But I don't think it's safe to extend epikeia to that sort of home-alone position yet.

    Offline CathMomof7

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    Marriage and Protestants
    « Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 07:21:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: Caraffa
    Quote
    Are marriages between say Southern Baptists valid in the eyes of God?


    Yes.

    Quote
    If they had children and they converted to the Catholic Faith would the children be legitimate?


    Yes, and the children would still be legitimate even if the parents did not convert.

    Quote
    Would they have to be remarried in the Catholic Church?


    No. Marriage has always existed, Our Lord simply raised it to a sacrament that confers grace.


    Marriage has been explained to me a bit different and maybe I am confused or didn't understand this clearly.

    I have been recently told that marriages between baptized Protestants are valid yes but not sacramental, therefore they have no grace.

    Only marriages where the Sacrament is conferred have grace.

    Perhaps I misunderstood.

    If otherwise, then why go through all the hoopla to get married in the Church anyway?  


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 02:50:34 PM »
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  • In the past the Petrine privilege was used to dissolve marriages among the baptized.

    Pierre's wife in War and Peace starts patronizing the Jesuits in order to obtain a divorce that way.

    The Pauline privilege can only be invoked for marriages of the unbaptized.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 05:37:04 PM »
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  • What if one person is Protestant, and the other is unbaptized?  Can that marriage be dissolved if the Protestant becomes Catholic?
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 05:54:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    What if one person is Protestant, and the other is unbaptized?  Can that marriage be dissolved if the Protestant becomes Catholic?


    Yes.  Neither party is, strictly speaking, Christian, and therefore the Pauline privilege applies but ONLY IF the non-Christian (i.e., the non-Catholic) party refuses the spouse that has converted.  

    Remember that the Pauline privilege is the privilege to enter into a second marriage under very strict circuмstances.  If the non-Christian party accepts the conversion of the spouse and is willing to continue the marriage, there is no privilige.



    Offline Jessa

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    « Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 01:02:15 AM »
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  • IF the married couple converts, don't they have the marriage validated by the Priest?
    ~Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them.~
    Ephesians 4:29

    "IF you can't see me in my sweats and think I'm beautiful, you don't deserve to see me

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 01:28:07 AM »
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  • TKGS said:  
    Quote
    Yes.  Neither party is, strictly speaking, Christian, and therefore the Pauline privilege applies but ONLY IF the non-Christian (i.e., the non-Catholic) party refuses the spouse that has converted.  

    Remember that the Pauline privilege is the privilege to enter into a second marriage under very strict circuмstances.  If the non-Christian party accepts the conversion of the spouse and is willing to continue the marriage, there is no privilige.


    A little late, but I'm glad I caught this response, thanks TKGS.  

    The bulk of the theology I read pertained was ecclesial, since I wasn't trying to be an armchair theologian but to figure out what the crisis was all about and save my soul.  Not wanting to be married, I never read much about marriage, but sometimes you need to know when you're talking to others.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 11:04:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Yes.  Neither party is, strictly speaking, Christian, and therefore the Pauline privilege applies but ONLY IF the non-Christian (i.e., the non-Catholic) party refuses the spouse that has converted.


    The sacramentally valid marriage of two baptized people cannot be dissolved by the Pauline privilege.  It has to be dissolved by the Petrine privilege, through the Pope.

    The Pauline privilege applies to valid marriages among the unbaptized.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 01:39:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: TKGS
    Yes.  Neither party is, strictly speaking, Christian, and therefore the Pauline privilege applies but ONLY IF the non-Christian (i.e., the non-Catholic) party refuses the spouse that has converted.


    The sacramentally valid marriage of two baptized people cannot be dissolved by the Pauline privilege.  It has to be dissolved by the Petrine privilege, through the Pope.

    The Pauline privilege applies to valid marriages among the unbaptized.


    It appears I made a serious error here.  Please forgive my failure to double-check before posting. Valid marriages between baptized Christians, not just Catholics are indissoluble.  If one party is baptized then the marriage may be dissolved by Petrine privilege, if neither is baptized, by the Pauline privilege:

    Quote
    From the ecclesiastical decisions that have been already quoted, it is clear that the Church has at least the authority of explaining the Pauline privilege, of limiting and extending it. This would give rise to no difficulties if the Pauline privilege, as expressed in 1 Corinthians 7:15, were an immediate Apostolic ordinance and only mediately Divine, inasmuch as Christ would have granted the power in general in a case of necessity to dissolve in favour of the Faith a marriage contracted in infidelity. For the entire Apostolic power passed to the supreme head of the Church, and as the Apostle could determine fixed rules and conditions for the dissolution of the marriages in question, the pope would have precisely the same authority. Yet on this point there is a diversity of opinion among theologians, and the Church has not settled the dispute. For, even if the privilege as promulgated by St. Paul was of immediate Divine right, the Church's power to make at least modifications in case of necessity can readily be explained because such a power belongs to her without a doubt in the other matters that are of Divine right. The first opinion seems to have been held in the fourteenth century by eminent scholars like P. de Palude and de Tudeschis, and in the fifteenth century by St. Antoninus; in recent times it is defended by Gasparri, Rossi, Fahrner, and others. The second opinion is held by Thomas Sanchez, Benedict XIV, St. Alphonsus, Perrone, Billot, Wernz, and others. The instruction of the Holy Office, 11 July, 1866 (Collectan., n. 1353), calls the privilege a Divine privilege "promulgated by the Apostle". However, in spite of the disagreement in regard to the Pauline privilege, the defenders of both opinions agree that there is another method for the dissolution of the marriage of infidels when one of the parties receives baptism, namely, by papal authority. This power is indeed not admitted by all theologians. Even Lambertini (who later became Pope Benedict XIV) doubted it when he was secretary of the Sacred Congregation of the Council, in the causa Florentina, in the year 1726. But earlier papal decisions, as well as the actual decision in this very case, leave no room for doubt that the popes attribute to themselves this power and act accordingly.


    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09707a.htm

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 02:18:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Yes.  Neither party is, strictly speaking, Christian, and therefore the Pauline privilege applies but ONLY IF the non-Christian (i.e., the non-Catholic) party refuses the spouse that has converted.  


    Are you saying that the baptized party, if they convert to Catholicism, cannot get a dissolution of marriage, only the un-baptized party, if they receive baptism in the Catholic Church?