Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: 800 Cruiser on October 05, 2018, 02:35:55 PM
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There are really only two things that truly terrorize me, and really just one: being separate from God.
I know that in this life I have the faith to work on this, but the one thing in this life that really is scary to me is the mark of the beast. From what I understand, it is quite possible to take said mark unwittingly and unknowingly, after which you are damned and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Do I misunderstand?
Do we have any real idea of just what this mark is, that we may avoid it entire (other than the right hand/forehead)?
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In order to be guilty of a deadly sin, there are conditions. It would be advisable to you to learn them, just search for: What are the three conditions for a mortal sin?
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From what I understand, it is quite possible to take said mark unwittingly and unknowingly,
No, that's not my understanding. The mark will signify that one accepts the world instead of God. There will be no middle ground.
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Is there an official stance on this subject?
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Here’s anither way to look at, in absence of an official Church stance, which I don’t know about...can one accidentally reject God? Can one accidentally worship Satan? Can one accidentally go to hell? No, no and no. Souls who go to hell do so after a life of chances to choose God, because He is all-merciful, so those who accept the mark of the beast will do so knowingly because such a mark will signify a rejection of God.
Does that mean that all who take the mark will be damned? Does that mean there won’t be those who repent and change their mind? I don’t know. But it’s logical to assume that the acceptance of the mark will be a public profession of Satan, who no one can say they chose accidentally. That’s my opinion...
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from DRBO
[16] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=16-#x) And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads. [17] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=17-#x) And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=17-17&q=1#x) [18] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=18-#x) Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.
So the choice would have to be deliberate. The problem is that without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell the necessities of life. I already see protestants saying that they hope to have a friend who will obtain food and water for them, for surely God would not want them or their children to suffer.
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Thank you Cera. That is the passage that gives me a problem.
If anyone has been paying attention to world affairs, in China they have a social score that already has prevented many people from air travel. A similar system is slowly being rolled out here as well. Couple that with the RFID chip in the hand that one of the Nordic countries has recently been rolling out and is now considering making mandatory the chip.
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This will test our faith, Cruiser, as it hasn't been tested yet. Which is why we must pray to remain faithful. It will certainly make life a lot harder for us.
When you think of the sufferings the unknown martyrs have gone through in lands where satanic Communists control, you can tremble to think how we ourselves would manage to remain in Christ.
But we have been promised persecution ang God keeps His promises.
"And all that will live godly in Christ Jesus, shall suffer persecution"
[2 Timothy 3:12 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=62&ch=3&l=12#x)]
"Who shall not receive an hundred times as much, now in this time; houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions: and in the world to come life everlasting."
[Mark 10:30 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=10&l=30#x)]
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I honestly don’t worry about being on the business end of a gun or torture. It was always not knowing if I would recognize the sign of the mark so I could avoid it. I would far rather starve to death than take the mark.
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from DRBO
[16] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=16-#x) And he shall make all, both little and great, rich and poor, freemen and bondmen, to have a character in their right hand, or on their foreheads. [17] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=17-#x) And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=17-17&q=1#x) [18] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=13&l=18-#x) Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.
So the choice would have to be deliberate. The problem is that without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell the necessities of life. I already see protestants saying that they hope to have a friend who will obtain food and water for them, for surely God would not want them or their children to suffer.
It is my opinion, (which is shared by at least three other people that I know of lol) that those with the mark of the beast indeed get their mark deliberately, but in the form of tattoos everywhere, pins, rings and other piercings on their face and other body parts, along with their demonic hair cuts and colorings, and on and on the list can go to include all the different perversions loved by so many people today.
I am not talking about a tattoo or normal earrings or normal hair coloring, I am talking about all those who decorate their bodies to imitate the jungle savages, the savages without God who worship false gods with their body paint, pins, lip and ear saucers, etc,. There are many savage imitators already amongst us. Just go to the grocery store and you're likely to see at least one or two, many more in bigger stores.
As for buying/selling, that is already here as well but only starting, currently, the savages just run you out of restaurants and scream a lot.
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Thank you Cera. That is the passage that gives me a problem.
If anyone has been paying attention to world affairs, in China they have a social score that already has prevented many people from air travel. A similar system is slowly being rolled out here as well. Couple that with the RFID chip in the hand that one of the Nordic countries has recently been rolling out and is now considering making mandatory the chip.
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You are observant to see what China and the Nordic countries are up to in this regard.
Norway, Sweden and Denmark are among the leaders in antiChrist society trends.
And China is as Godless as they come, although there are Catholic martyrs there.
We might never know the names of all the Chinese martyrs.
There are audio tapes made in the 40's and 50's providing some names and heroic stories, very edifying.
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Bottom line, in order to be guilty of taking the "Mark of the Beast," you would have to give your consent.
But remember, the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of God's mercy, which is the grace of the Holy Ghost.
The answer is to practice contrition, and to strive your whole life long to perfect your sorrow for sin.
You do this by doing PENANCE, which Protestants have a HUGE problem with.
They say there is no spiritual value in "works" which is the worst lie ever.
Works of penance are what makes us strong against the wiles of the devil.
Without the practice of penance you become helpless against the devil's temptations.
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At Fatima, the Angel of Peace (probably St. Michael the Archangel) taught the children to do penance.
They spent their formative years perfecting their contrition and most likely did far more penance than they needed to do.
That is, needed for their own sins.
They did penance for others too, Jacinta being the foremost advocate of doing penance for the Holy Father.
She never mentioned his name, so it applies to all the popes from her time to the end of the world.
Her prayer was "O Lord, this (voluntary suffering) is in reparation for sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary, for the conversion of sinners, AND for the Holy Father."
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Some people do penance sufficient for their own sins, and thereby gain graces for their own salvation.
Some people do penance sufficient for their own sins and for the sins of others too, those are the saints.
But only one person has done sufficient penance for the salvation of all the people who ever lived, and she is the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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By offering their penances to Our Lady, the Fatima children perfected their works joining them with Our Lady's supersubstantial graces.
It is noteworthy that St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort preached this very thing, that Our Lady takes our offerings and like the good mother, daughter and spouse that she is, knows how to arrange them to make them most pleasing to the Blessed Trinity.
She is the mother of Our Lord, the daughter of the Father and the spouse of the Holy Ghost.
The Fatima children may not have known of St. Louis de Montfort's teachings but certainly St. Michael did, and he taught them.
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By keeping this doctrine in mind and offering Our Lady our penances, we can perfect our contrition most expediently.
In these days when the Bishop of Rome is a scandal to Catholics, the bar is raised: who would suffer for this pope?
Who would think of offering penances for the conversion of the pope?
Certainly not Protestants! And perhaps not even many Catholics!
But that is what we are called to do, a most counter-intuitive thing, because nobody would think of that without guidance.
Do not worry about what you would say when confronted with the choice of taking the Mark or suffering for not taking it.
Just do penance, offer it to Our Lady, who perfects our offering to God, and the Holy Ghost will give you the words at the time.
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So, I’m trying to understand how we know, or assume, this chip is the mark of the beast? I also figured it was more of a visible sign....
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When it comes right down to the decision, if whoever is still alive is given the opportunity to take it; it will be very obvious that by so doing it one will be rejected the True God. A total abandonment of God. Pretty much like Vatican II is.
Take the time to read: E Supremi On the Restoration of All things in Christ
Pope Pius X - 1903 ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X ON THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS IN CHRIST
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So, I’m trying to understand how we know, or assume, this chip is the mark of the beast? I also figured it was more of a visible sign....
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The Beast must be an anti-Christ entity, therefore acceptance of the Mark would have to entail denial of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
That happened in Japan 400 years ago, and it's been happening elsewhere ever since.
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I honestly don’t worry about being on the business end of a gun or torture. It was always not knowing if I would recognize the sign of the mark so I could avoid it. I would far rather starve to death than take the mark.
Cruiser, I am certain that God will make our choice clear to us. I suspect it will be
( in human terms) a difficult choice, like the choices given to the early martyrs.
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Thank you Cera. That is the passage that gives me a problem.
If anyone has been paying attention to world affairs, in China they have a social score that already has prevented many people from air travel. A similar system is slowly being rolled out here as well. Couple that with the RFID chip in the hand that one of the Nordic countries has recently been rolling out and is now considering making mandatory the chip.
What is interesting about China's "social score" is that this was predicted in a "fiction" series for children by John Bibee in the early 90s. Called the Spirit Flyer Series, it has a new huge machine arrive in town under the auspices of an evil corporation. The machine gives each person a "popularity score." In the tradition of C. S. Lewis, it's a great book for both adults and children.
https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Flyer-8-Set/dp/0830812008
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One thing, but not the only thing, to consider is unified treaties on global standardization for IDs have thumb, hand & face prints on same IDs.
The Bible tells us "666" (Mark of the Beast) is a human number.
A human number is a biometric number calculated off of characteristics (thumb, hand, eye & face prints) individual to each person.
So the "character" (Mark of the Beast) on the right hand or forehead will likely contain biometric data of the person to whom it's attached or implanted, along with the possibility of the person's financial data, civic history, education, employment, bank account, assets, etc.
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The Beast must be an anti-Christ entity, therefore acceptance of the Mark would have to entail denial of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
That happened in Japan 400 years ago, and it's been happening elsewhere ever since.
I mean understand that... I just didn’t expect it to come in a chip?... I might be wording it wrong.
How can a chip be a sign of the mark of the beast? If you got the chip because it was the only way to feed your babies, but you were a devout Catholic would you still be in trouble? Or am I being to literal?
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Nobody can "unwittingly" lose his soul. Our Lord's victory took souls unto Himself from their slavery to the devil, and the devil cannot wrest them from Him unless they willingly go along with it.
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It has been many years, decades even, since I have gone into the end time prophecies. I am still not going to go back to re read them...it scarred (yes scarred, not scared, though that applies as well) me so much.
So I am unable and unwilling even to quote chapter and verse but my understanding was that even the most devout could and would be fooled into taking the mark, even though they have their guard up. Do I have this wrong then?
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It has been many years, decades even, since I have gone into the end time prophecies. I am still not going to go back to re read them...it scarred (yes scarred, not scared, though that applies as well) me so much.
So I am unable and unwilling even to quote chapter and verse but my understanding was that even the most devout could and would be fooled into taking the mark, even though they have their guard up. Do I have this wrong then?
Yes, you are wrong. Remember that when you went through that endtimes stuff you did not have the guidance of the Catholic FAith, nor did you have the grace of the Sacraments or theprotection of our Blessed Mother. Remember the gifts of the Holy Spirit. AS you grow in the faith you will heal from those scars and you will grow in Courage and Discernment. HAng in there!
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Which am I wrong about? Can you be more specific? Thanks.
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Which am I wrong about? Can you be more specific? Thanks.
In your immediately preceding statement:
my understanding was that even the most devout could and would be fooled into taking the mark, even though they have their guard up.
We must accept it willingly to be marked. I suppose that, even if you were forced, (tied up and given the mark against your will) you would not be marked in the eyes of God, who knows your heart.
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Thank you Nadir. You are of course quite right when saying I did not have the catholic faith at that time.
Also thank you for clarifying what I was wrong about.
As always I seek to understand better the faith.
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It has been many years, decades even, since I have gone into the end time prophecies. I am still not going to go back to re read them...it scarred (yes scarred, not scared, though that applies as well) me so much.
So I am unable and unwilling even to quote chapter and verse but my understanding was that even the most devout could and would be fooled into taking the mark, even though they have their guard up. Do I have this wrong then?
Hi Cruiser,
I think may be thinking of Matt 24: 24-25.
[24] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=24&l=24-#x) For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=24&l=25-#x) Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.
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I mean understand that... I just didn’t expect it to come in a chip?... I might be wording it wrong.
How can a chip be a sign of the mark of the beast? If you got the chip because it was the only way to feed your babies, but you were a devout Catholic would you still be in trouble? Or am I being to literal?
Re-read the words in the Bible, posted earlier. Those who refuse to take the mark of the beast will not be able to buy or sell. Many people who are not able to buy food or water will not have food or water to give to their babies.
It will be a difficult choice, just as it was for the early Christian martyrs. Many people will rationalize and deceive themselves into thinking "God will understand," and will take the mark of the beast.
INHO, this mark will clearly be part of the satanic one-world religion, economy and political system. How many early Christian martyrs died because they refused to offer a handful of grain to a false pagan god? Others rationalized that they had to do so in order to feed their children, perhaps making a "mental reservation." In so doing, they denied Christ.
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How many early Christian martyrs died because they refused to offer a handful of grain to a false pagan god? Others rationalized that they had to do so in order to feed their children, perhaps making a "mental reservation." In so doing, they denied Christ.
Well said, Cera! And many of those were parents who were concerned for their children. But God does not abandon his own.
Here are a couple of examples of such mothers in the early church:
When St Cyricus was martyred at 3, along with his mother, St Julitta, under Diocletian, her two servants took flight, and she had to bring her small son with her.
At the sight of his mother’s tortures, Cyricus began to shed tears. Prefect Alexander tried to quiet him with caresses and kind words. But he scratched Alexander’s face with his nails, crying out, “I am a Christian!”
Astonished, the prefect asked him who had taught him to speak. Cyricus answered, “Thy lack of wit is a wonder to me, that seeing my age, you need ask who instructed me in the knowledge of the true God! I am a Christian!” The Holy Ghost inspired a toddler to declare, “I am a Christian.” Enraged, Alexander hurled the child down, dashing his head on the steps and killing him.
His mother joyfully gave thanks to God that Cyricus had gone before her into heaven. She did not have to wonder, “What will happen to my boy? Will he grow up to reject the true Faith?” God provided for her son in a better way than she could have, insuring that they would not be separated in death. She herself was then flayed, plunged in boiling pitch, and at last beheaded.
St Cyricus is the St Cyr found in several French place names.
Sts Perpetua and Felicity also have a tale to tell.
Under Septimus Severus, the dark and oppressive atmosphere of the prison frightened 22 year old Perpetua, and her terror was increased by anxiety for her child. Two deacons succeeded in gaining admittance to the imprisoned Christians and helped alleviate their sufferings. Perpetua's mother brought her little son, whom she was permitted to nurse and retain in prison with her.
St Felicity was in her 8th month. As the law forbad execution of a pregnant woman, she feared her death would be postponed, so she and her companions prayed and Felicity went into labor and brought forth a little girl whom a sister adopted.
Perpetua and Felicity went to the amphitheater "joyfully as though on their way to heaven" and Perpetua sang a psalm of triumph. They were scourged, a wild heifer were set on them, and then were put to the sword. They died in Carthage, Tunisia, in 203 AD. The Basilica Majorum was erected over their tomb.
God strengthened Sts. Perpetua and Felicity to staunchly resist, for the cause of Christ, the claims of human affection, thus winning the palm of victory.
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The mark of the beast is:
1. The mark on the forehead means one has given oneself intellectually to this day and age and therefore works for the beast, Satan.
2. The mark on the hand means the work done by the hands is done only to accuмulate material goods and leads to material enslavement. The person works only for his gratification. A person also uses his marked hands for satisfaction of his passions and thus lives in inpurity and becomes a hedonist.
This day and age is the age of the "mark of the beast" since almost everyone is now following the beast.
"The masses in highly industrialized countries like England, the United States, or France are largely de-Christianized. Technology, and the way of life it produces, undermines Christianity far more effectively than do violent measures." - -- Czeslaw Milosz
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Well said, Cera! And many of those were parents who were concerned for their children. But God does not abandon his own.
Here are a couple of examples of such mothers in the early church:
Sts Perpetua and Felicity also have a tale to tell.
Thank you, Nadir. Let us pray for such grace of final perseverance.
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We can infer from Apocalypse of St. John 19:20 that not everyone will have the character ("mark") of the beast on their foreheads or right hands, or not everyone (if everyone is still forced to have it) who has the character will adore the image of the beast. The elect in Christ will either avoid taking on their person (forehead or right hand) the character, or if they're still forced to have it, they won't adore the beast's image.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet, who wrought signs before him, wherewith he seduced them who received the character of the beast, and who adored his image. These two were cast alive into the pool of fire, burning with brimstone. ~ Apocalypse of St. John 19:20
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You are observant to see what China and the Nordic countries are up to in this regard.
Norway, Sweden and Denmark are among the leaders in antiChrist society trends.
And China is as Godless as they come, although there are Catholic martyrs there.
We might never know the names of all the Chinese martyrs.
There are audio tapes made in the 40's and 50's providing some names and heroic stories, very edifying.
.
Bottom line, in order to be guilty of taking the "Mark of the Beast," you would have to give your consent.
But remember, the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of God's mercy, which is the grace of the Holy Ghost.
The answer is to practice contrition, and to strive your whole life long to perfect your sorrow for sin.
You do this by doing PENANCE, which Protestants have a HUGE problem with.
They say there is no spiritual value in "works" which is the worst lie ever.
Works of penance are what makes us strong against the wiles of the devil.
Without the practice of penance you become helpless against the devil's temptations.
.
At Fatima, the Angel of Peace (probably St. Michael the Archangel) taught the children to do penance.
They spent their formative years perfecting their contrition and most likely did far more penance than they needed to do.
That is, needed for their own sins.
They did penance for others too, Jacinta being the foremost advocate of doing penance for the Holy Father.
She never mentioned his name, so it applies to all the popes from her time to the end of the world.
Her prayer was "O Lord, this (voluntary suffering) is in reparation for sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary, for the conversion of sinners, AND for the Holy Father."
.
Some people do penance sufficient for their own sins, and thereby gain graces for their own salvation.
Some people do penance sufficient for their own sins and for the sins of others too, those are the saints.
But only one person has done sufficient penance for the salvation of all the people who ever lived, and she is the Blessed Virgin Mary.
.
By offering their penances to Our Lady, the Fatima children perfected their works joining them with Our Lady's supersubstantial graces.
It is noteworthy that St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort preached this very thing, that Our Lady takes our offerings and like the good mother, daughter and spouse that she is, knows how to arrange them to make them most pleasing to the Blessed Trinity.
She is the mother of Our Lord, the daughter of the Father and the spouse of the Holy Ghost.
The Fatima children may not have known of St. Louis de Montfort's teachings but certainly St. Michael did, and he taught them.
.
By keeping this doctrine in mind and offering Our Lady our penances, we can perfect our contrition most expediently.
In these days when the Bishop of Rome is a scandal to Catholics, the bar is raised: who would suffer for this pope?
Who would think of offering penances for the conversion of the pope?
Certainly not Protestants! And perhaps not even many Catholics!
But that is what we are called to do, a most counter-intuitive thing, because nobody would think of that without guidance.
Do not worry about what you would say when confronted with the choice of taking the Mark or suffering for not taking it.
Just do penance, offer it to Our Lady, who perfects our offering to God, and the Holy Ghost will give you the words at the time.
.
This is a beautiful post.
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We can infer from Apocalypse of St. John 19:20 that not everyone will have the character ("mark") of the beast on their foreheads or right hands, or not everyone (if everyone is still forced to have it) who has the character will adore the image of the beast. The elect in Christ will either avoid taking on their person (forehead or right hand) the character, or if they're still forced to have it, they won't adore the beast's image.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet, who wrought signs before him, wherewith he seduced them who received the character of the beast, and who adored his image. These two were cast alive into the pool of fire, burning with brimstone. ~ Apocalypse of St. John 19:20
Well said. In terms of being forced to have it, I have always wondered about Matt 5:30 that says "And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell."