Author Topic: Marital Act During Pregnancy (Read 19461 times)

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #75 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:10:49 AM »

St Thomas' argument is very dependent upon the definition of "the honesty of marriage" which wasn't mentioned. Either way, the Church's teaching is clear from C.C., so I don't have to worry about it.

As I was always taught, "just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be." This concerns imperfections, not sins. Geremia, if you want to argue that there is a greater 'perfection' in acting a certain way, in the situation of pregnancy, that is fine, but you can't ADD sin to a situation already decided upon by the Church. That's scrupulous.

Geremia · « **Reply #76 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:12:52 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

St. Thomas is NOT the Magisterium.

St. Thomas is the greatest theologian and Doctor of the Church. See: The Authority of St. Thomas Aquinas by Jacobus M. Ramírez, O.P.

Quote from: Ladislaus

If pleasure is sought so as to avoid adultery, that's no sin because the pursuit of the pleasure is subordinated to one of the secondary ends of marriage.

Only "to one of the secondary ends", irrespective of any regard or disregard to the primary end?

Quote from: Ladislaus

St. Thomas did not clearly articulate or understand this notion of the secondary ends of marriage

He describes the marriage goods.

Arvinger · « **Reply #77 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: Ladislaus
If pleasure is sought so as to avoid adultery, that's no sin because the pursuit of the pleasure is subordinated to one of the secondary ends of marriage.
Only "to one of the secondary ends", irrespective of any regard or disregard to the primary end?

During the pregnacy the primary end cannot be achieved, and Pope Pius XI teaches that in such situation secondary ends can still be pursued. Honestly I don't quite get where you see the problem.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #78 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:25:38 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

It seems Ladislaus thinks the primary end ceases to exist, yet it is always there,* even for those contracepting. It's one's disregard or regard of that end that can make the act sinful or not.

Again, your inability to make distinctions causes you problems.

Certainly the primary end can cease to exist materially (when it's not possible). Nevertheless, it must remain formally (in intention) ... to the extent that the couple would never do anything to thwart conception. This remains formally (in intention) so long as the couple does nothing to actively thwart conception ... even if it isn't there materially (due to physical impossibility). You on the other hand continue to claim, contrary to the teaching of the Church, that if there's NO possibility for conception physically or materially, then marital relations are at least venially sinful. You've stated that it's because then marital relations are being had for reasons of lust. But you completely ignore the secondary ends of marriage, creating a false dichotomy between lust or procreation. Everyone knows that physical relations, through the intimacy, and even through the bonding chemicals and hormones that are released, strengthen the emotional bond between a husband and a wife ... in addition to helping give relief towards any temptations that might arise from concupiscence. So long as the couple does not intend to do anything to thwart conception, there's no sin in having relations with those ends in mind ... as confirmed by the Magisterium. Without physical relations, the emotional relationship between husband and wife can grow cold.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #79 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:28:22 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Thomas is NOT the Magisterium.
St. Thomas is the greatest theologian and Doctor of the Church.

This matters nothing. Magisterium trumps any Doctor of the Church. In fact, the Church anathematized similar thinking when devotion to St. Augustine was high, stating specifically that the Magisterium trumps any Doctor of the Church. So, are you free to hold St. Thomas' opinion on the Immaculate Conception because he was a great Doctor? If you believe that, then you incur the Church's anathema.