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Author Topic: Marital Act During Pregnancy  (Read 19477 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Marital Act During Pregnancy
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2016, 12:57:54 PM »
Quote from: Geremia
St. Alphonsus di Liguori discusses this in his Theologia Moralis lib. 6 n. 924 "An liceat coire Conjugibus tempore prægnationis?" ("Whether it is licit to come together (copulate) during the time of pregnancy?"). The common opinion, he says, is that it is not a mortal sin, provided there is no risk of causing an abortion. There appear to be various opinions regarding whether it is a venial sin. St. Alphonsus seems to think it isn't a venial sin if it is done for an honest reason, such as if there's danger of incontinency, à la
Quote from: 1 Cor. 7:5
Defraud not one another, except perhaps by consent for a time, vthat you may give yourself 'to prayer': and return again together, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency.


Yeah, some Church Fathers considered it a venial sin, but that was before there had been a clear theological elaboration regarding the different ends of marriage.  I agree with St. Alphonsus that it's inherently not even a venial sin so long as it's done with a view towards the secondary ends of marriage (vs. sheer lust).  I think that most people conveniently think of the allaying of concupiscence as a euphemism for lust, but it's not that at all.  It's an intention in the faculty of reason to keep your soul from harm.  So, for instance, a husband and wife could say that they don't feel as close to one another if they're not having relations during pregnancy.  Or a husband and/or wife might say that they're struggling more with temptations against purity due to the lack of relations.  Obviously, excessive lust can become a venial sin, especially when those other ends aren't even entertained in the higher faculties, or else it can just be an imperfection.  But that can be true even in cases where the primary end isn't missing.  By way of analogy with the sin of gluttony, it's not a sin to enjoy the taste of a good meal and really enjoy a dessert.  At some point it can be an "imperfection" (short of venial sin), and then at another point it can cross over into venial sin (let's say I stuff gorge myself on an entire cake composed of 10 servings).  But the line can be a little bit fuzzy.

Marital Act During Pregnancy
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 01:01:22 PM »
I remember once reading from a private revelation and one of the things revealed was that one of the main reasons a man was saved was because he listened to his priest's advice and did not have marital relations with his wife when she was pregnant. It didn't say it was a sin to have relations while pregnant but that it pleases God when you don't kind of like fasting. I wish I could remember the source I read this from so I could provide a link.


Offline Ladislaus

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Marital Act During Pregnancy
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 01:11:57 PM »
Quote from: Geremia
Quote from: Ladislaus
I think I read somewhere that the husband couldn't legitimately require the marriage debt of a pregnant wife
See my post on St. Alphonsus above.


There's a difference between it being permitted and whether or not either party can call in the debt (i.e. whether it could be obligatory).

Quote from: Geremia
Quote from: Ladislaus
or a wife who was nursing,
Why would that be?


Not sure.  There was some thread on this a while back.  Based on what some theologians said.

Quote from: Geremia
Quote from: Ladislaus
whereas a woman can't require the debt of her husband when she's menstruating.
Perhaps you're thinking of St. Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica article "Whether it is allowable for a menstruous wife to ask for the marriage debt?" He argues that it is not moral because "of the harm that frequently resulted to the offspring from such intercourse." It was thought that defective children were conceived during the menses because the menstrual blood was too old. I'm not sure if there is any scientific evidence for this today. The woman's cycle wasn't really understood until Dr. Billings, circa mid-20th century.


Again, there's a difference between whether it's permitted and whether one or the other party can "call in the debt" as it were and make it obligatory for the other party.

Marital Act During Pregnancy
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 01:20:45 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
There's a difference between it being permitted and whether or not either party can call in the debt (i.e. whether it could be obligatory).
The husband and wife "are equal in paying and demanding the debt," as St. Thomas Aquinas says.

Offline Ladislaus

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Marital Act During Pregnancy
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2016, 01:25:51 PM »
Quote from: Matto
I remember once reading from a private revelation and one of the things revealed was that one of the main reasons a man was saved was because he listened to his priest's advice and did not have marital relations with his wife when she was pregnant. It didn't say it was a sin to have relations while pregnant but that it pleases God when you don't kind of like fasting. I wish I could remember the source I read this from so I could provide a link.


Sure, abstinence can certainly please God and be meritorious ... unless it doesn't please God.  So much of this depends on the circuмstances.  So, for instance, you often find the "pious" type who becomes reluctant to render the debt in the interests of a higher purity and spiritual pursuits.  But this leaves the other party feeling put out, based on one or another of the secondary ends that they feel the need to have satisfied.  In that case, it would be blameworthy rather than meritorious.  Out of charity, the more pleasing thing to God would be to NOT abstain in that case.  So many people have been tainted with this idea that there's something inherently incompatible with sanctity in pleasure.  God would not have associated pleasure with physical relations if that were the case.

Reminds me of a story about St. Francis of Assisi.  He had been abstaining from meat for several years.  At one point he was invited to eat at someone's home as a guest, where the person served meat.  St. Francis ate the meat without a second thought.  One of his fellow monks asked him whether or not it made him feel bad to have eaten meat after so long.  He said that he hadn't even given it a second thought because not eating would have been rude to his host.  That's true humility and true charity ... not the person who wants to abstain from physical relations with a spouse even against that other person's wishes.

Sin ultimately resides in the will and not in the flesh.  People need to remember that.

It's also why a lot of people get so worked up about sins of the flesh vs. other types of sins ... because they're ashamed of the physical acts.  But those same acts are NOT sinful within the context of marriage.  It's not the act itself that's sinful or shameful but the fact that one decided in his WILL to do something against the law of God.  That is the essence of sin.  In fact, sometimes sins of the flesh come from mere weakness, and there are many other forms of sin against the laws of God that entail greater malice or lack of charity but for which people have little shame.

So let's say that someone in a moment of weakness slips up and briefly consents to an impure thought.  Now, another person decides he doesn't feel like going to Mass on Sunday for no other reason than he doesn't feel like it or would prefer to watch football.  Which is the greater sin?  Obviously the latter.  Yet people are more ashamed of the prior than of the latter ... whereas it should be the other way around.