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Offline parentsfortruth

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Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
« on: May 31, 2013, 03:10:51 PM »
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  • Gone are the days when priests actually stuck with the exorcism until the devils were gone, I guess. Read the highlighted section. HMM, MAYBE THE NEW EXORCISM RITE COMBINED WITH A PRIEST GIVING UP, MAYBE LEADING TO PERSISTENT POSSESSIONS LIKE THIS MISERABLE MAN, HMM?

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newswidget/Pope-Excorcism-Possessed-Angel/2013/05/29/id/506975

    Man Pope Prayed Over Still 'Possessed'
    Wednesday, 29 May 2013 05:05 PM
    By Edward Pentin

    Edward Pentin's Perspective: A 43-year-old Mexican father of two, who claims to be possessed by demons — and whom Pope Francis prayed over earlier this month in what some witnesses likened to a public exorcism — insists that he still has demons inside him.

    Identified only as Angel V., the man told Spanish-language newspaper El Mundo that he had undergone some 30 exorcisms by 10 exorcists,  :stare: including the renowned Roman exorcist Rev. Gabriel Amorth,  :shocked: who all tried unsuccessfully to free him from his affliction. The interview was reported in the Italian daily La Stampa. (Tried unsuccessfully? Um... if you know anything about demonic possession, the priest isn't supposed to give up until they're out. What in the world has happened to it? Is this a cover up for the fact that they don't have any authority to kick out these devils or what? This seems very diabolical  and it doesn't make sense to me.)

    “I still have the demons inside me, they have not gone away,” the man said, noting that he felt much better after the Pope prayed over him. El Mundo reported that the man is able to walk. He was in a wheelchair when he met Pope Francis on May 19 at the conclusion of Mass on Pentecost Sunday.

    Pope Francis laid his hands on the wheelchair-bound man in St Peter’s Square. The man's expressions and the fact that he was known to be possessed made it appear to be an exorcism, although the Vatican denied the assertion, saying the Pope "did not intend to perform any exorcism" but simply prayed "for a suffering person who had been brought before him."

    An exorcism is, in the strict sense, a “casting out” of evil spirits using a very precise ritual. The Pope performed what is called a "laying on of hands" — a very ancient practice, going back to the Old Testament. In Christian tradition, it continues to be an act of blessing, and is also offered as an act of primarily spiritual healing by an ordained priest or bishop.

    Angel V., who is married and lives in the state of Michoacán, claims to have been possessed by demons since 1999.

    The Rev. Juan Rivas, a well-known Mexican priest, who accompanied Angel V. to Rome and was with him when he met the Pope, confirmed in an interview with El Mundo that Angel V. had been subjected to 30 exorcisms but "the demons that live in him do not want to leave him.” ('Scuse me a minute... WHAT? 'Didn't want to leave?" What tripe is this? NO devil WANTS to leave. They are COMMANDED to leave by the ones with authority. There's no "(insert demon name here) Hey, buddy, would you please leave?" Devil: No, we don't wanna. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!) Rivas, a popular figure in Mexico and a member of the Legionaries of Christ, (scuse me  :barf:) recalled how Angel kissed the pontiff’s ring and immediately fell into a trance.

    "The Pope then laid his hands on his head and at that moment a terrible sound was heard (from him), like the roar of a lion," Rivas said. "All those who were there heard it perfectly well. The Pope for sure heard it [but] he continued with his prayer, as if he had faced similar situations before.”

    In the interview, Angel V. recalled the first time the demons entered him in 1999 when he was on a bus in Mexico. He felt “an energy" had entered the bus. "I did not see it with my eyes, but I perceived it," he recalled. "I noted that it came close to me, and then stopped in front of me. Then, suddenly, I noted that something like a stake pierced my chest and, little by little, I had the sensation that it was opening my ribs.”

    It felt like a heart attack, he added, and he thought he would die.

    From then on, he said, his health started deteriorating: he vomited whatever he ate; he felt pains in his whole body, as if he was full of needles; he began to have difficulty in walking and breathing. “I could not sleep, and when I managed to sleep I had terrible nightmares connected with the evil one,” he asserted. He began to fall into trances in which he blasphemed, and spoke in unknown languages.

    Medical doctors gave him thorough examinations but “could not get to the cause of my problems,” he said. Priests gave him Extreme Unction (a sacrament administered to the sick) four times, but this only "relieved" but did not remove his problem. The Catholic said he prays to God which helps him.

    Knowing that he is possessed, he said is a source of "much fear," but he also feels "very dirty at the thought that there was an evildoer within me.” ('Scuse me. Um, it's still THERE?!) His family reacted with incredulity, while some of his siblings were skeptical and thought he was psychologically unbalanced, he said.

    For the past few years, Angel has sought out exorcists, including a leading Spanish priest, the Rev. Jose Antonio Fortea, who carried out exorcisms on him, and Amorth in Rome, but none could cast out his demons. (THE HUGE QUESTION HERE IS --- WHYYYYYYY NOTTTT?)

    The possession turned into “a nightmare,” he said, causing him to lose a publicity company he owned and forcing him to sell some real estate. His family though has stood by him. "Fortunately, my children have never seen me in a trance, though they know I am ill,” he explained, adding that the past eight months have been particularly difficult.

    One night he had a dream about Pope Francis, and when he woke up from the dream he turned on the TV and saw the Pope celebrating Mass exactly as he had seen in his dream “and then the idea came into my head that I should go to Rome.”

    At that time he was reading a book by Amorth, "The Last Exorcist," which included details of how both Benedict XVI and John Paul II carried out exorcisms on people brought to them. Angel V. asked Rivas, whom he has known for two years, to accompany him to the Vatican.

    Amorth believes Angel is without doubt possessed, and that it is a possession "with a message." "Not only is he possessed, but the devil who lives in him finds himself obliged by God to transmit a message," he said.


    “Angel is a good man. He has been chosen by the Lord to give a message to the Mexican clergy and to tell the bishops that they have to do an act of reparation for the law on abortion that was approved in Mexico City in 2007, which was an insult to the Virgin,” according to Amorth. “Until they . . . do this, Angel will not be liberated." (This seems very fishy to me.)

    Edward Pentin began reporting on the Vatican as a correspondent with Vatican Radio in 2002. He has covered the Pope and the Holy See for a number of publications, including Newsweek, and The Sunday Times.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline Matto

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013, 03:21:17 PM »
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  • When Novus Ordo exorcists perform exorcisms, do the possessed people sometimes get better?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013, 03:21:49 PM »
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  • I was going to post this article but you beat me to it. Like you, I thought exorcisms weren't considered complete until the demon had been cast out. Of course, if they're using the new rite, forget it. How foolish does the Vatican - and Francis - look now? Perhaps that's the plan. Anyway, just add another incident to what I've started calling "The Francis Problem."
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Zeitun

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013, 06:27:04 PM »
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  • Those demons need to go to the Pit and never leave.

    EDIT:  Obviously this Francis ain't no Pablo!


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #4 on: June 01, 2013, 02:43:06 AM »
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  • .


    Quote

    From then on, he said, his health started deteriorating: he vomited whatever he ate; he felt pains in his whole body, as if he was full of needles; he began to have difficulty in walking and breathing. “I could not sleep, and when I managed to sleep I had terrible nightmares connected with the evil one,” he asserted. He began to fall into trances in which he blasphemed, and spoke in unknown languages.



    He fell into a trance and spoke in unknown languages -- he was SPEAKING
    IN TONGUES!!   Did he roll around on the floor like a worm?

    The Protestants would love it!   ............   :kick-can:



    But seriously,

    Fr. Gabriele Amorth was recently quoted saying they're not using the "new
    exorcism rite" anymore because it didn't work.  

    So that much makes sense in all of this.






    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline DoubtingThomas

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #5 on: June 01, 2013, 11:57:58 AM »
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  • This is very strange...

    More Exorcists

    On this thread, I said:

    Quote from: DoubtingThomas
    I think, when it comes to "exorcisms", the problem could be even bigger than we think it is.

    I read once in a while threads, articles from websites, or posts in blogs, etc...  , and they all seem to miss a very important point. What is it?

    I say, is there a danger if an "exorcism" is not done correctly?

    And why would I say that?

    There are three examples that I can refer to, but for simplicity, I will only mention the one I think is the most famous one: Anneliese Michel.

    Please, do not take my words out of context (again), I am not against exorcisms, I am just thinking that if they are done "the wrong way" they could get someone dead.

    In such cases, the term "exorcism" would be incorrect, but people seem to use it anyways, I'll use it between quotes fro clarity. My point is that a "well performed exorcism" will never fail, but an "incorrectly performed" one not only could fail, but might kill the person.

    How exactly could a Catholic exorcism be "incorrectly performed"?

    The Charismatics perform "exorcisms" which resemble what Pentecostals do, and I frankly do not believe they can actually drive demons out of people. The Priest who was involved on the Anneliese Michel's "exorcism" was also involved with the Charismatic Movement. That leads me to believe that "pentecostal methods" where used during Her "exorcism" leading to Her death.

    If what I am saying is true, and I am open to the possibility that I am wrong, the problem is bigger than we think.

    Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".

    What are your thoughts on the matter?


    Quote from: DoubtingThomas
    Quote from: Frances
    Pope Francis appears to be doing what Pentecostals would call a "deliverance prayer," the precursor to a "Deliverance Session" which is a self-styled exorcism for those who reject that given by Our Lord to His Church.  It would be interesting to have seen more of what came before and after and to have heard the exact words.  As is obvious, however, there is no outward sign of Christ, only the person of the Pope, who appears at the end to be clawing the man's headand trying to force the man by his head into his wheelchair.  It is possible the man was disturbed by an evil spirit, or that Pope Francis simply aping what he's no doubt seen in his ecuмenical journeys.  At any rate, the Holy Father is not performing a CATHOLIC exorcism, the only kind to set free from Satan.


    I think, Anneliese Michel's death could be related to such "unorthodox methods". When Exorcists like Fr. Amorth say that Priests aren't exactly motivated to perform exorcisms, I think perhaps it is because some of them are not knowledgeable on the matter and wouldn't like to be involved with another case like that one.

    I remember listening to an mp3 from Fr. Fortea where He admits that He sometimes "speaks in tongues" as a mean for spiritual deliverance, He declared that He is very much "freestyle" when it comes to exorcisms.

    Besides that, there is a book I read where a former-witch almost died while a Bishop was "speaking in tongues" during Her exorcism.

    I say this because we need more exorcists (quantity), but we need better exorcisms too (quality).

    What are your thoughts?


    Quote from: DoubtingThomas
    Quote from: Matto
    I know that Bishop McKenna performed exorcisms and I heard of another sedevacantist Bishop who performed exorcisms, but I forgot his name. I don't know how often they were successful, though.


    I find this question often whenever I read about this topic on traditionalists forums, but nobody seems to clarify the matter. I wish the traditionalists exorcists would explain it themselves.


    And now it turns out that the "exorcism" a)was real, and b) was ineffective.

    I told you so...
    If an echo doesn't answer, when it hears a certain sound, then the beast is free to wander, but never seen around.

    Find all You need to know about the Scapular of Saint Michael the Archangel, on the Thread titled:
    "Questions about: Scapular

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 12:31:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .


    Quote

    From then on, he said, his health started deteriorating: he vomited whatever he ate; he felt pains in his whole body, as if he was full of needles; he began to have difficulty in walking and breathing. “I could not sleep, and when I managed to sleep I had terrible nightmares connected with the evil one,” he asserted. He began to fall into trances in which he blasphemed, and spoke in unknown languages.



    He fell into a trance and spoke in unknown languages -- he was SPEAKING
    IN TONGUES!!   Did he roll around on the floor like a worm?

    The Protestants would love it!   ............   :kick-can:



    But seriously,

    Fr. Gabriele Amorth was recently quoted saying they're not using the "new
    exorcism rite" anymore because it didn't work.  

    So that much makes sense in all of this.








    Well yes, but if you read the article Fr. Amorth was one that "tried" to do an exorcism on him, and the guy is still possessed.

    There's something fishy about all of this.

    When a priest does an exorcism, you can't have like 10 other priests come in and like, tag team it. It has to be ONE PRIEST, and that ONE PRIEST until he dies (or the exorcism is completed successfully), THEN you can bring in another.

    This article says, and Fr. Amorth confirms, that there have been 30 exorcisms done on this man, and Fr. Amorth performed (I don't know how many) at least ONE. Whoever the first priest was to get permission to do it, should have stuck with it until the demon was gone. This is elementary stuff if you know much about exorcism. Now unless that first priest that took the responsibility is dead, HE should have to go back and see it through UNTIL THE DEMON(S) ARE GONE, and NO OTHER PRIEST should be doing this exorcism. And obviously he should be using the OLD RITE TO DO IT.

    Now this whole situation is botched, but do you think even Fr. Amorth would admit that? Probably not.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 12:35:45 PM »
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  • Quote from:  doubting thomas


    Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".


    AND THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM RIGHT HERE. If the first priest didn't use the correct rite, it's not going to work. Once you do that, you can't just call in another priest to continue it. The first priest has to use the correct rite and do it the right way until those demon(s) are gone. THIS is the problem, and I cannot believe Fr. Amorth, who is the "lead exorcist" in the WORLD can't see that!
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline DoubtingThomas

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 02:10:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote from:  doubting thomas


    Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".


    AND THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM RIGHT HERE. If the first priest didn't use the correct rite, it's not going to work. Once you do that, you can't just call in another priest to continue it. The first priest has to use the correct rite and do it the right way until those demon(s) are gone. THIS is the problem, and I cannot believe Fr. Amorth, who is the "lead exorcist" in the WORLD can't see that!


    Maybe we were deceived, and Fr. Amorth was just selling books. Same goes for Fr. Fortea.

    Yes, I dared to say it.
    If an echo doesn't answer, when it hears a certain sound, then the beast is free to wander, but never seen around.

    Find all You need to know about the Scapular of Saint Michael the Archangel, on the Thread titled:
    "Questions about: Scapular

    Offline Zeitun

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 02:27:25 PM »
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  • demon:  Where's the other guy?  Who are you?

    priest:  Oh hello.  Peace be with you.  I'm Father Bob.  How are you today?

    demon:  What the.....never mind.  

    priest:  And what is your name?

    demon:  my name?  i don't have to tell you my name!

    priest:  Oh come on, be a good sport.  I told you my name.  Come on....is it embarassing?  I know how that goes.  My real name is Robert but my mother always called me Bobby and to this day she still calls me that.  It really upsets me.  In front of everyone she belittles me like that.  I've been in therapy for a long time over my problems with her.  She's a widow so I have to take care of her because all my siblings moved away and I'm the one who stayed close to home.  Mother always said "You...

    demon:  enough already!  shut up, will ya?  

    priest:  Oh, I'm very very sorry.  I hope I didn't offend you in any way.  They always taught us in seminary to respect everyone and always immediately apologize when we did something offensive.  So would you please share your name?

    demon:  I don't have to tell you my name.  

    priest:  I know you don't have to but just to be fair since I shared mine will you share yours?

    demon:  You can't tell me what to do!

    priest:  Ok, we'll skip that part.  Let's just start with The Lord's Prayer.

    demon:  Ok, but I'm NOT holding your hand.  Say, do you know Father Oldchurch?

    priest:  Father Oldchurch?  Yes it rings a bell.  Is that the one with the funny black hat and the bourgeois clothes?  What a stuffed shirt!  I can't understand what he says, all that Latin.  And those prayers.....they go on forever!  He's so ancient...must be in his 50's or something.  During my exorcism training they made me assist him and it took forever for him to finish.  I missed "How I Met Your Mother" and had to watched it on Hulu.  

    demon:  So you know him?  Do you think he will be coming with you next time?

    priest:  No, they said I could handle this case all on my own.

    demon:  Oh OK.  I'm ready to tell you my name now.

    priest (clapping hands):  Excellent.

    demon: my name is no one.

    Offline poche

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #10 on: June 02, 2013, 12:02:44 AM »
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  • There is a story from the Fathers of the Desert where a girl was possesed by a demon. Someone told her father that certain monks from a certain monastery could excorcize her, but that they didn't like to do these things because of the trouble that comes with being well known. So they set up a ruse. One Saturday when the monks came to sell their baskets they invited one of them to his house to discuss buying a great quantity of their baskets. While the monk was there the demoniac slapped the monk. The monk turned the other cheek and the demon shrieked in pain and left the girl never to return again. As the demon left he shouted "The command of Christ forces me to leave!!" That was the command of Christ to turn the other cheek forced the demon to leave in the presence of the holy monk following the command of Christ.


    Offline tmw89

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 12:21:58 AM »
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  • Thumbs up for Zeitun - that was too great!

    Has anyone posted a side-by-side comparison of the real Rite and the NO "rite" online yet?
    "The 'promise to respect' as Church law the New Code of Canon Law is to respect a number of supposed laws directly contrary to Church doctrine." --Bishop Williamson

    Offline poche

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 05:24:35 AM »
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  • Here is an incident from the archives that is teliing,

    1812 Apr. 16

    (Flaget), B(enedict) J(oseph), Bishop of
    B(ardstown, Kentucky)

    to Father (Simon Gabriel Bruté) Brutey
    Baltimore, Maryland

    (Flaget) is very grateful for Bruté's letters which are like gazettes. His poor country is so buried in the woods that his messages are very much appreciated. He begs Bruté to continue to send them news of the church. (Flaget) tells of attending a sick child which suffered from convulsions which had been cured by spitting up worms while he was there. Three other children experienced the same illness which was attributed to witchcraft. The father said that only a priest could cure the children because a negress was the cause of the illness. There were indications in her case of possession especially blasphemy and cursing of women. The mother, a Catholic, sprinkled holy water on the person and she became quiet. Protestants hearing this thought that all water would have the same effect with the salt in it, but their water did not have the effect. In another case the use of the scapular and singing Catholic hymns had the effect of stopping the sicknesses. (Flaget) has heard of this from Father (Charles) Nerinckx who heard it from the father. (Flaget) has eye witnesses. (Flaget) is going to take another very sick child and have her examined by doctors and see if the sickness can be explained by natural things. If not he will assemble the clergy and proceed with an exorcism. A great good will result if this sickness can be cured by this exorcism. There is great publicity to the case and last Sunday 400 persons came to see the child. (Flaget) prays for the good health of Father (William) DuBourg so that he can continue his excellent conferences. He is to tell Sinnott that his father is well and has made his Easter Communion. He asks to be remembered to Irishmen Hayes and McGowan.

    II-3-n A.L.S. (French) 4pp. 4to.


    Offline poche

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    « Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 05:26:24 AM »
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  • Here is more on the same subject;

    1812 Apr. 9

    David, Father J(ean), St. Thomas Seminary
    (Bardstown), Kentucky)

    to Father (Simon Gabriel) Bruté
    Baltimore, (Maryland)

    David expresses his pleasure in reading Bruté's letter, especially with his peculiar style. David promises to try to tell of their experiences as well as he can. They eat three times and frugally and even have whiskey, although they do not drink it. He has a happy community of eight children who look to him as their father. They confess to him and receive Communion once every eight days. Buchetty has left to everyone's satisfaction. He left Palm Sunday at 7:30 in the evening. Their cabin improves with Moretti working on it. Desrigauds cultivates the garden. David has purchased 7,000 feet of lumber for the brick chapel which will be 60 by 26 or 30. The wheat promises a good harvest. They have celebrated Holy Week as best they could with a large congregation, also the Annunciation. Bishop (Benedict Joseph Flaget) could not bless the oils because he did not have the oil. They had the ceremonies they could for Easter. David is preparing a choir from the young people of the parish. He describes the decoration of the church for the feast. He continues April 18. They are completing the cabin, erecting door beams and filling the cracks with mud and whitewashing. They have had three days of rain with thunder and lightening which set fire to a tree, and frightened their horses. Having to take refuge in the home of Protestant neighbors there are evidences of a possible conversion. The child they thought possessed is still very sick. She becomes violent at the approach of blessed objects but then becomes quiet. They will consult the best physicians of Bardstown before trying an exorcism. April 22. There is little new. The Bishop made the retreat in peace. He is pleased at the advance of his seminary. David hopes to hear good news from Bruté. They need two or three new missionaries and the Bishop would like a good superior for his seminary so he could go on the circuits of the Bishop. There is little chance that he will accompany the Bishop to Baltimore, because the seminary is too important.

    II-3-n A.L.S. (French) 4pp. 4to.


    Offline DoubtingThomas

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    Man supposedly exorcised by the Pope
    « Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote from:  doubting thomas


    Not only a Priest with Jurisdiction is needed, but an Authorization from the Local Ordinary Bishop, plus the pre-Vatican from of the Exorcism in Latin must be used. In addition to the OK from the Bishop, the Priest must request permission from that Bishop in order to use that old exorcism formula too. That narrows down the chances that the exorcism would be performed "the right way".


    AND THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM RIGHT HERE. If the first priest didn't use the correct rite, it's not going to work. Once you do that, you can't just call in another priest to continue it. The first priest has to use the correct rite and do it the right way until those demon(s) are gone. THIS is the problem, and I cannot believe Fr. Amorth, who is the "lead exorcist" in the WORLD can't see that!


    I think this is relevant:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/McKenna-interview

    or

    http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/top/features/docuмents/02320490.htm
    If an echo doesn't answer, when it hears a certain sound, then the beast is free to wander, but never seen around.

    Find all You need to know about the Scapular of Saint Michael the Archangel, on the Thread titled:
    "Questions about: Scapular