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Author Topic: Magic and witches  (Read 972 times)

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Offline PaulLuke

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Magic and witches
« on: August 16, 2012, 10:46:31 PM »
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  • I remember learning back in high school (public school, for what it's worth) about witch hunts back in the old days, especially around the time of the Protestant Revolt and ensuing religious wars. Did the Church recognize (or at least once recognize) that the devil can act in this world in the form of magic wrought by witches and sorcerers who had sold their souls to the Satan, the Prince of Darkness? I don't necessarily expect to get a credible answer in other places, but does anyone here know if there have been actual docuмented or recognized examples of witchcraft and magic? If this is a stupid question, please play nice. :wink:


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 10:57:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: PaulLuke
    I remember learning back in high school (public school, for what it's worth) about witch hunts back in the old days, especially around the time of the Protestant Revolt and ensuing religious wars. Did the Church recognize (or at least once recognize) that the devil can act in this world in the form of magic wrought by witches and sorcerers who had sold their souls to the Satan, the Prince of Darkness? I don't necessarily expect to get a credible answer in other places, but does anyone here know if there have been actual docuмented or recognized examples of witchcraft and magic? If this is a stupid question, please play nice. :wink:


    If you read the Catholic Encyclopedia, they take a tack that is almost tending towards modernism, on the subject, saying that almost all witch accusations are delusions.

    However, it's certain that theologians such as St. Thomas Aquinas believed in it, and that the Bible testifies to witchery, like that of the Witch of Endor.

    We may have the problem of ignoring the witchcraft that goes on among us, which might account for a lot of problems today.


    Offline PaulLuke

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 06:15:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    If you read the Catholic Encyclopedia, they take a tack that is almost tending towards modernism, on the subject, saying that almost all witch accusations are delusions.


    I wouldn't necessarily disagree that there were many, many false and/or delusional accusations and executions throughout history spurred by paranoia and uncharitable intentions. With that said, I don't think this means all were false, though, since the existence of witchcraft seems something plausible.

    Quote from: Telesphorus
    However, it's certain that theologians such as St. Thomas Aquinas believed in it, and that the Bible testifies to witchery, like that of the Witch of Endor.


    I'm just curious if you or anyone else here can cite where the Angelic Doctor might have written this, or at least some other theologian.

    Offline Daegus

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 07:46:45 AM »
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  • "Magic" both exists and does not exist.

    It "exists" in the sense that it is actually the Devil's work itself, and not the work of any other preternatural "spirits" that people might believe in. The Devil is angelic in his origin, so it follows that the Devil would have a great deal of power to manipulate reality as people allow him to do so by granting him access into their souls.

    It does not exist in the sense that there really is no such thing as magic as it is understood in modern times. As has been said, it is simply the work of devils and nothing more.

    "Witches" and "Sorcerers" and those who consider themselves to be such are nothing more than doomed souls (at least until they free themselves from such evil practices, which may never happen) who dabble in powers that are far too great for their understanding. They think that they can control the power of devils when it is devils who allow them to think so so that they can control them. That is why when people who are possessed try to free themselves from demonic influence they find themselves being both spiritually and often times even physically assaulted by the devil and his minions.

    The Church never organized witch hunts because she has always understood that witches and the like have always been fallen away souls. In the inquisitional period, "witches" and "sorcerers" (read: heretics) were sent off to be judged by inquisitional courts who would decide their fate: this often included whether or not to send them off into the hands of the government or to hand over a less harsh punishment.
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra

    Offline songbird

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 02:37:22 PM »
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  • the Anti-Christ will be using magic to try to convince people that he could be God.  It is in the bible of the magic that will take place.  So, what is the difference between miracle and magic.  Divine or demonic.


    Offline Loriann

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 03:48:02 PM »
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  • Some of the accounts of exorcism recorded in the history of the church do give details of behavior, not of this earth, that is certainly controlled by the Dark One.  They also detail how people can make connections to the other side by opening portals to evil, thus coming under the influence...this is why Ouija and seance are forbidden. So to have a person fall under the spell of the Dark one could make them fit the title witch, in another context.
    I am not alone, for the father is with me.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Magic and witches
    « Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 03:52:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: PaulLuke
    I'm just curious if you or anyone else here can cite where the Angelic Doctor might have written this, or at least some other theologian.


    Quote from: St. Thomas

    "Some have asserted that witchcraft is nothing in the world but an imagining of men who ascribed to spells those natural effects the causes of which are hidden. But this is contrary to the authority of holy men who state that the demons have power over men's bodies and imaginations, when God allows them: wherefore by their means wizards can work certain signs. Now this opinion grows from the root of unbelief or incredulity, because they do not believe that demons exist save only in the imagination of the common people, who ascribe to the demon the terrors which a man conjures from his thoughts, and because, owing to a vivid imagination, certain shapes such as he has in his thoughts become apparent to the senses, and then he believes that he sees the demons. But such assertions are rejected by the true faith whereby we believe that angels fell from heaven, and that the demons exist, and that by reason of their subtle nature they are able to do many things which we cannot; and those who induce them to do such things are called wizards.