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Author Topic: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared  (Read 4486 times)

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Re: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2020, 09:00:50 PM »
Your questions would produce a better effect were they accompanied by and adorned with the spooky music from an old Vincent Price horror flick or something equally Hollywoodish.

In fact, yes, there is something to what you term "this": I have a deep-seated prejudice against the sort of baseless speculation beloved of people who are challenged in the rationality department. You might just as soon have asked me "Why is it you are so against the moon's being made of green cheese? Is there something else, something sinister, that you are trying to conceal?"

My counter question to you is this: "Why do you choose to credit unsourced and unverified hearsay in preference to docuмented and well-sourced testimony to the contrary?" Or put otherwise, "What's your beef with evidence?"
Thank you for answering the question as to what your objection is to Lincoln being Catholic.  No need for the snark about music.  The article from which the following sourced and verified information came from, was not written to have photographs showing of the original, actual referenced articles.  But these sources are available. At a time when the powerful forces behind Lincoln's election would not have wanted his Catholic background out, and he himself had fallen away anyhow for political expediency (also getting involved with spiritualism and seances, as did his wife), the public trail of his original faith would have faded, or be made to fail.  To allow the impression of him to be some type of Christian was better for his career.  But would all these Catholic clerics lie about having Catholic interactions with the Lincolns?  Whatever Lincoln said about himself, or even others who said he was agnostic, or an atheist, it would not change a Catholic background.  

******
 Incredulous' article cited the following sources:

There is an article written by an anonymous "Pioneer Priest" in the Kansas City Catholic Register, and which was preserved in the Catholic Historical Review, that has a certain Father Cyr, in whose Kentucky parish the Lincolns lived (Abe was born in Larue County, KY) quoted as saying that Abe's father, Thomas Lincoln was once Catholic.  And he adds, "I often said Mass in his house and heard the confessions of his children." 

This same article also contains the testimony of Bishop Lefever of Detroit who personally knew the Lincolns, having said Mass at times in their home.

Bishop Ireland of St. Paul was quoted in the New York Tablet (1869) as saying, "Lincoln never denied his religion, but after having joined some society condemned by the Church, he naturally, fell away." 

This same Bishop Lefever of Detroit was in France in 1865 at the time of Lincoln’s assassination.  When questioned by a reporter for the Paris Monde he said: "I am pained to hear of poor Lincoln's death." He went on to declare that the tragedy might not have happened "had he taken the advice I gave him when he was a boy living in New Salem (Illinois) to avoid all places of public amusement during the Holy Season of Lent. 'Say your beads Abe', I told him... he was a good, kind boy. He used to help me fix a place to say Mass... after I left there I lost track of him. I was told he married a Presbyterian and fell away from the religion of his young days." 

******

Now The American Catholic Historical Researchers article you cited says that the missionary priest, Fr. Rowe out of LaSalle, IL, was said to have baptized Lincoln who lived in the area covered by this priest.  He is said to be known to be Catholic as were his parents at that time.  He was not known to have received First Communion, but he wouldn't have during his time in Catholic Kentucky, being 7 when they moved to Illinois and the time of First Communion then being 12 or more.  (It is claimed there is no record of his baptism according to these Researchers - but is that impossible to have happened in those crude, pioneering missionary days?  Or maybe it just was not yet "found," for any good or bad reason.)  The story says some of Lincoln's biographers, who were not going to want him to be Catholic, or never heard that it was so at least in his youth, said his parents were some type of Protestant.  Are these biographers lying - or misinformed?  And even if the Lincolns later did become Protestant - even wacky, a REALLY far from being Catholic type of Protestant - does it erase that they had been Catholic to begin with?  In its questioning the assertions of the priests and bishops involved, this ACHR article seems to actually NOT want Lincoln to have ever been Catholic (and went with a great deal of so-called hearsay itself, it seems, in doing so).  Indeed, it ends by burying the notion of a Catholic Lincoln, saying, "The case is closed."  Like Rome had spoken.      


Re: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2020, 09:01:39 PM »
Yes, I have seen this as well. There is something very strange about Lincoln where my jew-dar starts clicking whenever I get a good look at him. And his "non-specific" religion seems suspect at best. He certainly has all the signs of the marrano type.
Of course, his name is "Abe" as well.
It doesn't mean he was Jєωιѕн, but Abraham would have been an unusual first name for a Catholic child at that time.  People were normally named either after New Testament figures or canonized saints from the history of the Church.  Old Testament names were rare among Catholics.  Nowadays, OT names are more common for Catholic children, but Abraham is not one of those names.  Far better to have an OT name, than the pagan, epicene surname-sounding first names (all the Taylors, Tylers, Hunters, Madisons, Paytons, Haydens, Bradens, and so on), or the soap-opera names that are all the rage nowadays.  The atheist Las Vegas magician Penn Jillette (a very funny man, by the way) named his daughter Moxie CrimeFighter.


Re: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2020, 09:34:00 PM »
Incredulous might be the first person in recorded history whose Lenten discipline consists in channeling Uriah Heep.


Credibility  :popcorn:

If I recall correctly, Claudel thinks Michael A. Hoffman is an enlightened Catholic and Vladimir Putin will save the Christian world?

Re: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2020, 09:36:30 PM »

If I recall correctly, …

You don't. You seldom do.

Re: Lincoln was one of the "bad Catholics" St. Bernadette feared
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2020, 10:19:18 PM »
I thought Stalin was Russian Orthodox.

But his blood might've had at least half Jew, hence, he might've been a crypto-Jew. His real surname, Jughashvili, was Jewy. He looked Jewy, too. Many Jews infiltrated seminaries. After the seminary, Stalin publicly rejected Christ and belief in God, which is typical of Jews who wear the mask of atheism as a front to attack Christ and the Church while concealing inherent Jєωιѕн hatred towards Christians. 

Also, Stalin was the biggest advocate for the creation of the state of "Israel" after WWII. Moreover, Stalin's son and daughter married Jews.