Author Topic: Leonine Prayers Optional?  (Read 2467 times)

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Offline Zeitun

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Leonine Prayers Optional?
« on: March 16, 2013, 11:12:45 AM »
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  • I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.

    Offline Matto

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 11:27:15 AM »
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  • I never went to an SSPX daily Mass, but after every Sunday Low Mass we always pray the Leonine prayers. I hope this is not a new trend.
    In a Station of the Metro
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    Petals on a wet, black bough.


    Offline bowler

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 12:12:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Zeitun
    I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.


    Ask the pastor why the change. We are traditionalists, we don't change things at our whim.

    All change except away from evil, is the most dangerous of all things. (Plato)

    If he wants to do the St. Joseph prayer, do it before mass with the rosary, or do it after the Leonine prayers.

    Beware, he may be setting you up for eliminating the prayers after mass all together.

    Offline SJB

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 12:38:44 PM »
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  • Here's something from Canon Law Digest, 1958-62:
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 12:56:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Here's something from Canon Law Digest, 1958-62:


    It's side ways and it's in pdf form, hard to flip.


    Offline SJB

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 01:32:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: SJB
    Here's something from Canon Law Digest, 1958-62:


    It's side ways and it's in pdf form, hard to flip.


    You should be able to rotate it CCW in Adobe Reader. I noticed it was sideways, but I couldn't flip the scan without the full Adobe software.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 01:40:15 PM »
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  • Here's a "snip" that should be oriented correctly.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 05:59:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Zeitun
    I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.



    All you need is justification for the omission...

    Quote from: SJB

    332                            CANON   451                          [Private]

        In connection with the prayers after Mass, we wish to remind
    you that only a serious reason would justify the omission of the
    usual Leonine Prayers...  



    Perhaps a prayer to St. Joseph is considered "a serious reason"
    in the SSPX, after all, this is the month of St. Joseph, and +Fellay,
    et. al., are doing a worldwide consecration of the Society (that is,
    what's left of it) to St. Joseph -- that would be on Tuesday the 19th.

    This will be the second time in 55 years that St. Joseph has been
    used as an excuse for Modernization, if I'm not mistaken.

    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline VinnyF

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 03:19:52 PM »
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  • The Leonine prayers are omitted on occasion in the ordo but usually only if a ceremonial follows the Mass or if successive Masses are offered.  I know of one priest whose English is not very good who says the Leonide prayers in Latin during the weekly Low Mass and occasionally intones the Salve Regina or Ave Regina Caelorum instead of praying the Leonine prayers in Latin during the SUnday Low Mass which would probably also cause an amount of consternation among the faithful.

    Offline Matto

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 04:38:27 PM »
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  • After Mass today we prayed the Leonine Prayers and afterward, we also prayed the Litany of St. Joseph.
    In a Station of the Metro
    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    Offline SJB

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Zeitun
    I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.



    All you need is justification for the omission...

    Quote from: SJB

    332                            CANON   451                          [Private]

        In connection with the prayers after Mass, we wish to remind
    you that only a serious reason would justify the omission of the
    usual Leonine Prayers...  



    Perhaps a prayer to St. Joseph is considered "a serious reason"
    in the SSPX, after all, this is the month of St. Joseph, and +Fellay,
    et. al., are doing a worldwide consecration of the Society (that is,
    what's left of it) to St. Joseph -- that would be on Tuesday the 19th.

    This will be the second time in 55 years that St. Joseph has been
    used as an excuse for Modernization, if I'm not mistaken.



    Fr. Cekada never says the Leonine prayers and I believe he also denies the prayers being said for the intention of Russia ever really existed. Just in case he was wrong, he further stated that Russia no longer needed those prayers.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline bowler

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 06:57:40 PM »
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  • Quote
    Fr. Cekada never says the Leonine prayers and I believe he also denies the prayers being said for the intention of Russia ever really existed. Just in case he was wrong, he further stated that Russia no longer needed those prayers.


    Thanks for the warning. Cekada has lost his marbles.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 07:24:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Zeitun
    I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.



    All you need is justification for the omission...

    Quote from: SJB

    332                            CANON   451                          [Private]

        In connection with the prayers after Mass, we wish to remind
    you that only a serious reason would justify the omission of the
    usual Leonine Prayers...  



    Perhaps a prayer to St. Joseph is considered "a serious reason"
    in the SSPX, after all, this is the month of St. Joseph, and +Fellay,
    et. al., are doing a worldwide consecration of the Society (that is,
    what's left of it) to St. Joseph -- that would be on Tuesday the 19th.

    This will be the second time in 55 years that St. Joseph has been
    used as an excuse for Modernization, if I'm not mistaken.



    Is there any reason the priest couldn't simply say both?
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Sigismund

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 07:26:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Zeitun
    I attended Low Mass at an SSPX chapel yesterday.  There were no Leonine Prayers--instead we were to recite some prayer to St. Joseph.

    What is this about?  We were confused.



    All you need is justification for the omission...

    Quote from: SJB

    332                            CANON   451                          [Private]

        In connection with the prayers after Mass, we wish to remind
    you that only a serious reason would justify the omission of the
    usual Leonine Prayers...  



    Perhaps a prayer to St. Joseph is considered "a serious reason"
    in the SSPX, after all, this is the month of St. Joseph, and +Fellay,
    et. al., are doing a worldwide consecration of the Society (that is,
    what's left of it) to St. Joseph -- that would be on Tuesday the 19th.

    This will be the second time in 55 years that St. Joseph has been
    used as an excuse for Modernization, if I'm not mistaken.



    Fr. Cekada never says the Leonine prayers and I believe he also denies the prayers being said for the intention of Russia ever really existed. Just in case he was wrong, he further stated that Russia no longer needed those prayers.


    Yeah, now that Russia is Catholic and all...

     :facepalm:

    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline SJB

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    Leonine Prayers Optional?
    « Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 08:01:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Footnote from Cekada article on the Leonine Prayers
    T. Lincoln Bouscaren SJ & Adam C. Ellis SJ, Canon Law: A Text and Commentary, (Milwaukee: Bruce 1946), 35. “A law may cease to bind in two ways: either by repeal, which is called extrinsic cessation, or by be­coming inoperative without repeal, which is called intrinsic cessa­tion. It is common doc­trine that a law ceases to bind without repeal in two cases: first, if the circumstances are such that the law has become posi­tively harmful or unreasonable; second, if the purpose of the law has entirely ceased for the entire community.”


    So Fr. Cekada has the Leonine Prayers ceasing to bind because either those prayers have "become posi­tively harmful or unreasonable," or "the purpose of the law has entirely ceased for the entire community."

    Or ...

    He just doesn't want to say the prayers because he'd like to do his own thing.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

     

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