Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?  (Read 4295 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline roscoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7669
  • Reputation: +645/-417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2019, 09:55:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • edit
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #46 on: September 30, 2019, 10:55:24 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Watch your language, Mister.
    My apologies-- the forum awaits your case against the Card Brother. BTW your own source says that the College of Cards requested the purple for Fr Pecci from the Pope--not the other way around.  MO is that the attack on Pope Leo XIII  in this Forum is a disgrace. :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46453
    • Reputation: +27353/-5049
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #47 on: October 01, 2019, 06:12:08 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • My apologies-- the forum awaits your case against the Card Brother. BTW your own source says that the College of Cards requested the purple for Fr Pecci from the Pope--not the other way around.  MO is that the attack on Pope Leo XIII  in this Forum is a disgrace. :cheers:

    There's no "attack" ... just measured criticism.  So Popes are above criticism?  We had lots of deviant popes in the history of the Church.  Now, I'm not likening Leo XIII to these, but in principle popes are not above some criticism.  I think that there's significant evidence that he tried to "relax" things a bit, and was a little too interested in "dialoging" with modern science and the modern world (at that time).  Benedict XV did the same kind of thing, attempting to relax the strictness of St. Pius X somewhat ... and it had similar fruits.

    It's no accident that St. Pius X, after the reign of Leo XIII, lamented that the Church was, humanly speaking, finished ... due to the pervasive infestation of Modernism.

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #48 on: October 01, 2019, 11:42:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We have had 'lots of deviant popes" ??? LOL


    This is an absurd statement.. You ARE attacking the Church.

    Could you pls give us your list of these devilish popes?

    It is true that there have been a few bad popes. Boniface VIII(8?) Urban VI, Leo X, Clement VII, Benedict XV-- but that is all I can think of.

    I have never heard that Pius X claimed the Church was 'finished'-- Pls cite source
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46453
    • Reputation: +27353/-5049
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #49 on: October 01, 2019, 11:51:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We have had 'lots of deviant popes" ??? LOL


    This is an absurd statement.. You ARE attacking the Church.

    Could you pls give us your list of these devilish popes?

    It is true that there have been a few bad popes. Boniface VIII(8?) Urban VI, Leo X, Clement VII but that is all I can think of.

    Yes, that's 4 right there.  That suffices to establish the point, that popes can be bad.  4 to me is a lot.


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #50 on: October 01, 2019, 11:55:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • MO is that 4 or 5 out 260+ is not a lot.... :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46453
    • Reputation: +27353/-5049
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #51 on: October 01, 2019, 03:32:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • MO is that 4 or 5 out 260+ is not a lot.... :cheers:

    OK, I'll revise my statement to "some".

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 498
    • Reputation: +448/-23
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #52 on: October 01, 2019, 06:39:28 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Roscoe, you are giving Poche a run for his money.
    :laugh1:
    I actually thought one of his posts had been written by poche when I read it!
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #53 on: October 01, 2019, 08:05:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Pls cite post you are referring to... :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Nishant Xavier

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2873
    • Reputation: +1894/-1751
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #54 on: October 02, 2019, 03:18:52 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • MO is that the attack on Pope Leo XIII  in this Forum is a disgrace. :cheers:
    Thank you, Roscoe. You are correct. Tell us, geniuses who think otherwise, how many of the 88 sublime and lofty encyclicals of His Holiness Pope Leo XIII, including 11 Enyclicals just on the Holy Rosary, in this month dedicated to it by H.H., you have even read? Since very many of you would not have even read like half that number, have any of you liberals, who criticize excessively even traditional Sovereign Pontiffs and side with the enemies of the Church in doing so, at least read the works of Bishops and Priests who have, and summarized it for you? Probably not either. Yet you think yourselves competent to pass rash and scandalous, and manifestly erroneous, judgment on His Holiness Pope Leo XII. What an utter disgrace.

    Here is an article: By the way, Pope Leo XIII repeatedly condemned Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, as in Humanum Genus. Some of you act and think like pure Protestants.

    From: https://catholicexchange.com/pope-leo-xiii-pope-rosary

    Pope Leo XIII: The Pope of the Rosary
    FR. DONALD CALLOWAY, MIC


    Pope Leo XIII is the longest lived pope in Church history, dying at 93. A brilliant writer, poet, and theologian, he established the Pontifical Academy of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome in 1879 (now known as the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas, or the Angelicuм). He was passionate about hunting and viniculture, and was known to trap birds and tend a small vineyard within the confines of the Vatican Gardens.
    As a pastor of souls and a mystic, Pope Leo XIII was deeply concerned about the social and moral issues of his time, and gave the Church many spiritual weapons to combat these issues. While saying Mass one day, he had a vision of a fierce spiritual battle taking place and was inspired to write the famous Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel. He greatly promoted devotion to St. Joseph, consecrated the entire world to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, promoted the First Friday devotions, and established June as the month dedicated to the Sacred Heart. He is also the pope before whom a young Thérèse of Lisieux knelt, begging to be allowed to enter Carmel at the age of 15. He was the first pope to appear on film and beatified St. Louis de Montfort in 1888.
    Marian Devotion

    From his youth, Pope Leo XIII had a strong devotion to Mary. Through the discovery of the Marian writings of St. Louis de Montfort in 1846, and the subsequent investigations into these writings as part of de Montfort’s beatification cause, Pope Leo XIII was deeply influenced by de Montfort’s Marian thought. He was so enamored with True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin that he granted an indulgence to anyone who consecrated themselves to Mary using St. Louis de Montfort’s method. Another source of Marian inspiration for Pope Leo XIII was the work of Blessed Bartolo Longo in Pompeii.


     
    Pope Leo XIII was very open to private revelation. He promoted the Brown Scapular, instituted the Feast of Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, wrote an apostolic letter promoting pilgrimages to Marian shrines, especially Lourdes, and received the visionary of La Salette, Mélanie Calvat, in two separate private audiences. He so loved Lourdes that he commissioned the construction of a Lourdes Grotto in the Vatican Gardens. Following the thought of St. Bernard of Clairvaux, he taught that a Christian trying to live their faith without Mary is comparable to a bird trying to fly without wings. In his many Marian writings, he emphasized that it is Our Lady who is capable of bringing about obedience to the Vicar of Christ among all Christians. He was the first pope to have his voice recorded; on the recording, he’s singing the Hail Mary.
    Champion of the Rosary
    Pope Leo XIII is the greatest champion of the rosary to ever hold the office of the Vicar of Christ. During his pontificate, he wrote 11 encyclicals on the rosary, promulgated numerous apostolic letters on the rosary, and gave countless messages on the rosary to various dioceses and religious institutes. His rosary encyclicals contain a summary of all the statements previous popes had made about St. Dominic’s role as the father of the rosary and the founder of the Confraternity of the Rosary. In almost every rosary encyclical that he wrote, he affirmed that St. Dominic was the founder of the rosary. He expressly taught that Our Lady herself entrusted the rosary to St. Dominic, and compared St. Dominic’s Confraternity to an army of prayer and a spiritual battalion capable of winning souls for Christ.
    A pontiff who sought to emphasize the importance of Catholic social teaching, he wrote the encyclical Rerum Novarum and also taught that the rosary was part of the solution to the social problems of his day. He tirelessly taught that the rosary was the most effective means of expanding the kingdom of Jesus Christ in the world and was of benefit to both individuals and society at large. He encouraged everyone to pray the rosary every day, and especially encouraged priests and missionaries to preach the rosary, since it has the power to expel evil and heal the sores of the human heart.
    Pope Leo XIII dedicated the month of October to the rosary, granted many indulgences to the rosary, approved a comprehensive list of the indulgences attached to the rosary, supported the construction of the Basilica of the Rosary in Lourdes, inserted the title “Queen of the Most Holy Rosary” into the Litany of Loreto, wrote a charter for the Confraternity of the Rosary, encouraged the Dominicans to promote the rosary, and supported the rosary apostolate of Bl. Bartolo Longo at the Basilica of the Rosary in Pompeii. Even a shortened version of his famous Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel is now commonly prayed at the end of the rosary. The writings of Pope Leo XIII highlighted a special blessing: To pray the rosary is to pray with the holy angels, since it was the Archangel Gabriel who uttered the first Ave. Pope Leo XIII will forever be the pope of the rosary.
    Rosary Gems
    It is mainly to expand the kingdom of Christ that we look to the rosary for the most effective help.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    Experience has shown that to inculcate love for the Mother of God deeply in souls there is nothing more efficacious than the practice of the rosary.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    In Mary, God has given us the most zealous guardian of Christian unity. There are, of course, more ways than one to win her protection by prayer, but as for us, we think that the best and most effective way to her favor lies in the rosary.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    The rosary is the most excellent form of prayer and the most efficacious means of attaining eternal life. It is the remedy for all our evils, the root of all our blessings. There is no more excellent way of praying.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    For in the rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    The rosary, if rightly considered, will be found to have in itself special virtues, whether for producing and continuing a state of recollection, or for touching the conscience for its healing, or for lifting up the soul.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    The origin of this form of prayer [the rosary] is divine rather than human.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    They [Confraternities of the Rosary] are, so to speak, the battalions who fight the battle of Christ, armed with his sacred mysteries, and under the banner and guidance of the heavenly Queen.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    We may well believe that the Queen of Heaven herself has granted an especial efficacy to this mode of supplication [the rosary], for it was by her command and counsel that the devotion was begun and spread abroad by the holy Patriarch Dominic as a most potent weapon against the enemies of the faith at an epoch not, indeed, unlike our own, of great danger to our holy religion.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII
    Let all the children of Saint Dominic rise up for the fight and let them, like mighty warriors, be prepared to use in the battle the weapons with which their blessed Father, with so much foresight, armed them. This is what they have to do: Let them plant everywhere the rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary; let them propagate and cultivate it with fervor; through their assiduous care may the nations be enrolled in these holy militias where the ensigns of the rosary shine; may the faithful learn to avail themselves of this weapon, to use it frequently; may they be instructed in the benefits, graces, and privileges of this devotion.
    ~ Pope Leo XIII


    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12036
    • Reputation: +7579/-2279
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #55 on: October 02, 2019, 08:06:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Xavier, just because Pope Leo XIII wrote against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and loved the rosary doesn't mean he wasn't lax or politically/philosophically liberal.  JPII was an open proponent of Our Lady and yet he was a flaming heretic and a one-world-religion supporter.  St Theresa of Avila was a nun who gave her life to God, yet He showed her the spot in hell due to her lukewarmness (then she shaped up).  Religious devotion and personal sanctity do not always go hand in hand.  I can't believe you don't realize this; it's an obvious hypocrisy of human nature that we all struggle with.  Don't be a pope worshipper.  This is a modern error.


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #56 on: October 02, 2019, 11:37:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Xavier, just because Pope Leo XIII wrote against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and loved the rosary doesn't mean he wasn't lax or politically/philosophically liberal.  JPII was an open proponent of Our Lady and yet he was a flaming heretic and a one-world-religion supporter.  St Theresa of Avila was a nun who gave her life to God, yet He showed her the spot in hell due to her lukewarmness (then she shaped up).  Religious devotion and personal sanctity do not always go hand in hand.  I can't believe you don't realize this; it's an obvious hypocrisy of human nature that we all struggle with.  Don't be a pope worshipper.  This is a modern error.
    I have never seen any evidence that Pope Leo was in any way 'lax or politically/ philosophically liberal".
    Show some proof of your allegation!! & btw-- Forum awaits the specific allegation against the Card brother by merry. :baby:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #57 on: October 02, 2019, 12:46:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Xavier, just because Pope Leo XIII wrote against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and loved the rosary doesn't mean he wasn't lax or politically/philosophically liberal.  JPII was an open proponent of Our Lady and yet he was a flaming heretic and a one-world-religion supporter.  St Theresa of Avila was a nun who gave her life to God, yet He showed her the spot in hell due to her lukewarmness (then she shaped up).  Religious devotion and personal sanctity do not always go hand in hand.  I can't believe you don't realize this; it's an obvious hypocrisy of human nature that we all struggle with.  Don't be a pope worshipper.  This is a modern error.
    JP 2 was never even the Pope... :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3780
    • Reputation: +2812/-272
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #58 on: October 02, 2019, 03:12:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have never seen any evidence that Pope Leo was in any way 'lax or politically/ philosophically liberal".
    Show some proof of your allegation!! & btw-- Forum awaits the specific allegation against the Card brother by merry. :baby:

    ‘In the nineteenth century, as man’s knowledge of antiquity increased, many strange voices began to attack the divine origin and truthfulness of the Bible. In the ensuing storm, the traditional voice of Christendom rose clear and calm in the person of Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) with his encyclical Providentissimus Deus, solemnly affirming that the entire Bible is God’s word, holy and true. He outlined a stricter scientific method for studying the Holy books, which was to bear great fruit in the following years.’ --- The Holy Bible, Catholic Press, Inc., Chicago, 1950.

    So, what did Leo XIII say that brought 'great fruit?'

    ‘Now we have to meet the rationalists, true children and inheritors of the older heretics, who, trusting in their own way of thinking, have rejected even the scraps  and remnants of Christian belief which have been handed down to them…. These detestable errors, whereby they think they destroy the truth of the divine books, are obtruded on the world as the peremptory pronouncements of a certain newly-invented “free science,” a science, however, which is so far from final that they are perpetually modifying and supplementing it…
    His teaching [St Irenaeus] and that of other holy Fathers, is taken up by the Synod of the Vatican, adopted the teaching of the Fathers, when, as it renewed the decree of Trent on the interpretations of the divine Word, it declared this to be its mind, that “in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, that is to be held as the true sense of Holy Scripture which Mother Church has held and holds, whose prerogative it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of Scripture; and therefore, it is permitted to no one to interpret the Holy Scriptures against this sense, or even against the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.” By this very wise law the Church by no means retards or blocks the investigations of Biblical science, but rather keeps it free of error, and aids it very much in true progress….

    Wow, Leo XII teaches that you cannot interpret the Scriptures even against the unanimous agreement of the Fathers.” Now isn't that why Pope Paul V in 1616 defined heliocentrism formal heresy, because all the Fathers read the Scriptures as revealing geocentrism. Is Pope Leo XIII condemning that Biblical reinterpretation?

    You wish, for later in PD we find:

    ‘15: But [the interpreter] must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St Augustine – not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires, a rule to which it is more necessary to adhere strictly in these times, when the thirst for novelty and unrestrained freedom of thought make the danger of error most real and proximate.’ Neither should those passages be neglected which the Fathers have understood in an allegorical or figurative sense.’--- Providentissimus Deus.

    'Beyond what the Fathers have done.' Shouldn't this be 'what some of the Fathers have done?' Now here we find Pope Leo, or whoever wrote this Encyclical for him, trying to fit the Fathers in with the 1820-35 reinterpretation of Scripture from the geocentrism of all the Fathers to the heliocentrism defined as formal heresy by the Church in 1616 and 1633.. Anyway, it worked, for from then on Pope Leo XIII is quoted endlessly as supporting the re-interpretation of Scripture if 'science' demands it. Thus the death of a literal Genesis, with the 'science' of cosmology, uniformitarianism (long ages) and evolution got its thumbs up in Pope Leo XIII's encyclical.

    ‘When Pope Leo XIII wrote on the importance of science and reason, he essentially embraced the philosophical principles put forth by Galileo, and many statements by Popes and the Church over the years have expressed admiration for Galileo. For example, Galileo was specifically singled out for praise by Pope Pius XII in his address to the International Astronomical Union in 1952.’[1]


    [1] Vatican Observatory website 2013.





    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7669
    • Reputation: +645/-417
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Leo XIII - Good or Bad?
    « Reply #59 on: October 02, 2019, 03:25:11 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • E rev around S :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'