Author Topic: LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part  (Read 2366 times)

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Offline sedetrad

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LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part in your book. This will be a John Dee discussion thread.

Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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  • *LOL* I was thinking you meant John Deere   :farmer:
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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  • Darn...my first dislike critic
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline guitarplucker

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  • Shakespeare based the character of Glendower in Henry IV on John Dee. I've seen the 1979 BBC version of the play and the performance is pretty funny. He's portrayed as a self-absorbed blowhard.

    Offline Marcelino

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  •  :reading:


    Offline Raoul76

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  • Doctor Faustus in Marlowe also was supposedly based on John Dee -- and James Bond ( Her Majesty's Secret Service, a sort of spook working for the occult queen ).

    The Spanish Armada was allegedly defeated because John Dee was in Spain around that time, collecting information, and then smuggled a book giving away information about the Spanish to the English. The book appeared to be a harmless egghead alchemical tract; it was really cipher, code, giving away the plans of the Spanish, how many ships they had, things of this nature. How else could Elizabeth's pukey navy defeat the mighty navy of Spain, which was a wonder of the world?

    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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  • Okay, will do.  

    I've given this thread a bookmark, and you've given me the impetus I need to push through to that chapter.  (Jones' writing is so thick and academic, compared to a lot of stuff I read.)  I am hoping I can get to it in a week's time.  

    Once I'm at the chapter, I'll begin the explication.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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  • Okay.  Made it to the "John Dee" chapter.  

    In regards to the chapter I read before, all I have to say is: Man, those Anabaptists were crazy.  

    I'll probably have a chunk of "John Dee" chapter read by tomorrow evening, and I'll be able to explicate a bit.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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  • Okay, so, first the setup.

    The John Dee chapter starts off in England in the mid-1500s.  Jones describes how King Henry VIII and many powerful families in England managed to confiscate an enormous amount of wealth from the monasteries:

    Quote
    the loot went on at an appalling rate.  When [Edward] died and Mary came to the throne, it was nearly completed.  A mass of new families had arisen, wealthy out of all proportion to anything which the older England had known, and bound by a common interest to the older families which had joined in the grab.

    The money stolen from the Catholic monasteries was utilized to set up a system of usury, newly embraced by the new rulers of England, and the money was also used to supress Catholicism from ever rising again in England.  

    Now, this chapter about the English is different from the other few chapters before it.  Before, when we read about the different Protestant revolts throughout Europe, we see groups of people succumbing to orgiastic dionysian parades, riots, long-winded justifications for lust and debauchery.  And all of these revots are violent, and have to be put down with a military hand because they are so crazy.  Jones refers to the actions of these groups (Hussites, Anabaptists, the Peasant Revolt) as judaizing, which means the act of taking Christians into behavior that is supposedly toward the Old Testament.  For example, the justification of polygamy, justified warfare from peasants, comparisons to King David--things which sound like what a cult leader today would preach.  

    However, England is different.  England is not so crazy as the previous examples.  England is sophisticated in its transformation.  

    Quote
    Together with the Cecils and the Russells, [Thomas] Gresham helped make England the model for the modern nation.  England would turn finance into a weapon more powerful than Philip's armies.  Revolution in Muenster meant communism; in England it meant capitalism.  As Marx understood, the beginning of capitalism was the theft of Church property.  The former wealth of the Church was put in the service of Mammon when the wealthy English families contested the Jewish monopoly on usury.
     
    ...

    Under Gresham's guidance England created the wretched proletariat for which it became infamous through Dickens' novels.  Under Gresham's leadership:

    "A whole class of decent Englishmen, of whom too little has been remembered in history, was swept off the church lands and doomed to poverty, vagabondageand often crime: mostly small farmers and farm laborers with their families, dispossessed because the new owners found it more profitable to raise sheep."


    Jewish involvement was obvious.  The English took Jews as their mentors.  Though they expelled the Jews officially in 1290, only 16,000 actually left.  The unprincipaled majority of Jews remained in England to subvert and poison and influence.  These were the marranos of England, and they provided a network for other Jews to return to England, and these returning Jews were disguised as Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian merchants.  

    Quote
    The Lobards, who practiced usury on Lombard Street in London, were probably crypto-Jews.  As in Spain, many English Jews went underground to preserve their fortunes.  When Jews expelled from Spain in 1492 joined them, the time was ripe for expansion of Jewish influence over English culture under the guise of the reformed faith.


    Jones cites Barbara Tuchman who noticed that England changed sometime during the 1500s, "...when the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob became the English God," and the "heroes of the Old Testament replaced the Catholic saints."  

    Jones cites Tuchman:

    Quote
    "With the Puritans came an invasion of Hebraism transmitted through the Old Testament."  Tuchman adverts to the notion that Scripture is a front for appetite, saying the Puritans "followed the letter of the Old Testament for the very reason that they saw their own faces reflected in it."  But she takes the idea no further.  Puritanism meant the end of Christian morality and the importation of "Jewish habits."  According to Cunningham, as cited by Tuchman, "The general tendancy of Puritanism was to discard Christian morality and to substitute Jewish habits in its stead."  The natural consequence was "retrogression to a lower type of social morality which showed itself at home and abroad."  The first manifestation of that moral retrogression was the widespread poverty characteristic of English life for centuries thereafter.


    Heresy, looting, usury, judaizing.  That seems to be the backdrop for our figure, John Dee.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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  • A little bit more about England, mid 1500s.  

    The one thing I forgot to mention in the last post was that Mary, daughter of Catherine of Aragon and Henry VIII, was a Catholic who wanted to restore property to the Church.  She found no support, not even from her husband.  Her advisors did not support her either.  In 1555, she began burning heretics who were against the Catholic Church, but things in England had changed since the Inquisition, and "the enemies of the Church had grown much more sophisticated in psychological warfare."  About three hundred Englishmen died from her Inquisition.  

    On May 29, 1555, an arrest warrant for a particular secret Protestant cell was issued.  This cell had links to Mary's half-sister, Elizabeth.  One of the conspirators was John Dee.

    ...now we get to it.


    ---

    John Dee

    There is not much known about his religious background or early family life.  No information as to whether or not he was baptized.  Jones says this of him:

    Quote
    More than Tyndale's translation of the Bible, Dee is responsible for turning England into THE Judaizing nation par excellence: Dee created the philosophy that allowed England's new rulers to integrate their lust for gain, their judaizing, their imperialism, and their penchant for magic into a more or less coherent whole.  His enemies accused him of casting spells.  He did a horoscope of the royal wedding between Mary and Philip, and informants later claimed that, in casting that horoscope, Dee had "endeavored by enchantments to destroy Queen Mary."  His role ranged from casting horoscopes to assign propitious dates for momentous occasions, for example, Elizabeth's coronation, to advising on matters geographical and political.  By the time of his death in 1608, the tide of reaction was running against him, but by then he had left an indelible mark on what would become the world's premier Protestant empire and foremost promoter of revolution.  


    I found the following interesting:

    Quote
    While a student at Cambridge in 1546, Dee put on a performance of Aristophanes' play "Peace," during which a mechanical scarab beetle leapt off the stage in flight to the palace of Zeus.  No one could explain how Dee accomplished this.


    After Cambridge, Dee went to Mainland Europe to a few centers of learning.  He ended up in the Spanish Netherlands in a place called Louvain, where a lot of ideas collided together.  Think of Louvain as New York City's Greenwich Village of the 20th century.  Everything came together there, from Anabaptist thought, to radical Protestantism, to Renaissance science, navigational discoveries, and of course, Jewish Cabala.  

    Dee did not seem to have religious views.  Neither Protestant nor Catholic.  So, he fit well in either locale.  He could thrive among either Catholics or Protestants, since he did not have allegiance to either.  Jones proposes the supposition that Dee may have actually become a priest--though it is unclear--under the employment of Bishop Bonner.  This would make him a priest who practiced magic and uncanny arts, and Cardinal Allen suspected him of trafficking in spirits and double-dealing.

    According to Jones, Dee was a believer in an alternative to both Catholicism and Protestantism, the "occult philosophy in the Elizabethan Age."  

    Quote
    The clearest expression of his beliefs came later with publication of his Monas Hieroglyphica.  The Monad was his symbol for the key to understanding the universe.  It was intimately related to the language God spoke when He loosed the divine force that caused the universe to come into existence and then stay in orderly motion.  Magic, as Dee understood it, involved "the human ability to tap this force.  The better our understanding of the way it drives the universe, the more powerful the magic becomes.  In other words, magic is technology."  Neither Protestant nor Catholic, Dee believed in magic, and he was willing to work with whichever regme was willing to pay for his services...Magic determined his politics, which determined his religion.  


    Dee returned to England in 1522 and wrote, "Everywhere statues were destroyed in the churches.  The great crucifix ... on the altar of St. Paul's was a few days ago cast down by force of instruments, several men being wounded in the process and one killed...  There is not a single crucifix now remaining in the other churches."  Some acquaintances helped him to join the household of Northumberland that year.  He was an Inquisitor for Queen Mary until 1558, when Mary died.  Then, after that, his allegiance changed.  It came off that John Dee was not truly Catholic at all, but a double agent.  In May of 1555, when John Dee was arrested, it came out that "Dee was really working for Cecil and Elizabeth" all along.  Then, a little later, in order to prove he was actually working for the Protestant royalty, he used the stars and the queen's birthday to decide the date of the queen's coronation.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline guitarplucker

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  • Very interesting, Laramie! I have to get my hands on that book.


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part
    « Reply #11 on: August 04, 2012, 12:56:33 PM »
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  • Jones takes another step out of John Dee’s life for a short segment, and returns to the world stage, setting the reader up for later developments in the chapter.

    A LOT happens in the world of John Dee.

    Jewish world conspiracy in Europe...

    And a lot happens around Europe with Jews. When the Spanish exiled the Jews from their country during their Inquisition, the Jews ended up relocating, and created perhaps the first world conspiracy network. Jews functioned as sophisticated spy networks that kept anti-Spain and anti-Catholic forces of the world informed about how to subvert Catholic Spain politically and militarily.

    Quote
    Several Spaniards later regretted the expulsion of Jewish financiers in 1492; in the seventeenth Century Spanish writers first claimed the growing wealth of countries like Holland was due to converso capital flowing into Amsterdam. Later, the mythical decline of Spain and the triumph of its enemies were blamed on the international Jewish conspiracy. Among the first to take this line was the poet Francisco de Quevedo, who claimed Jewish elders from all over Europe had held a meeting at Salonika, where they drew up secret plans against Christendom. Quevedo and others accused the count duke of Olivares of planning to invite the Jews back into Spain to undo all the consequences of 1492.


    Where did the Jews go to in order to spread their mischief?  Everywhere.  But Jones concentrates on about 6 areas: Antwerp in the Spanish Netherlands (or, just the Netherlands, as we know them today), Germany, Poland, Bohemia, Turkey, and Rome.  Back in Spain, since the Inquisition was so potently effective, the Jewish-supported heresies "took on a quietist tinge and became Illuminism" of the sort practiced by Gnostics and the earlier heretical Albegensians.

    But here is what happened in each of these areas:

    Spanish Netherlands: After the Spanish expulsion, the Jews moved here and perfected their skill in international trade.  They centralized in Antwerp, "whose citizens percieved the financial advantage of admitting these well-connected merchants."  Gradually, they built up a spy network throughout Europe with this new power.  They would come in to Antwerp posing as merchants, generally.  After controlling the spice trade, they would reinvest profits into the printing trade, and soon they were quickly printing out Protestant bibles.  At the end of the 1500s, they were able to throw off their "Catholic cloak" and form their own Jewish communities.  

    Germany: So-called "Catholic" Jews colluded with the German protestants.  Up in the north, Jews were able to expose themselves more, and they found an alliance with the Calvanist Protestants.  "Disaffected Catholics who had lived double lives as clerics now made common cause with the Jews who had led double lives after converting to Catholicism to preserve their wealth."  The Protestant-Jewish alliance was a "binary weapon," as Jones puts it.  Jewish wealth and expertise in finance and publishing aided the Calvanists and their protectors, the princes.  Cultural warfare was waged against the Catholic Church and Spain.  

    Poland: Jewish political influence increased, fueling eastern Polish imperialism.  It was a crime to be disobedient to predatory Jewish tax farmers.  Soon, "cultural drift in Poland led to an explosion of the sort the Inquisition prevented in Spain."  This led to Polish decline a century and a half later.  (I guess the Spanish Inquisition wasn't so bad after all, if it prevented Spain from the decline Poland experienced.)

    Bohemia: Jews were passing military intelligence to Turks to fight the Christians.  As a result, Austrian Hapsburgs banished all Jews from Bohemia.  The area was still red hot from Peasant Revolts, the Anabaptists, and the Hussite Rebellion--all rebellions were Jewish in nature, and all of these past incidents mixed too well with the Jewish sensibility to revolt against the Christian order of the time.  Hence, Jewish banishment.
     
    Turkey: Marranos from Spain and Portugal were secretly shipping arms to Turkey to assist the Muslims in their centuries long quest to destroy Christianity.
     
    Rome: On May 5, 1527, Lutheran German mercenaries sacked Rome.  Jews took it as if the messiah were coming.  The leader's name was Solomon Molkho; he was a marrano.  He was later burned at the stake in Italy in 1532.  This obvious and clear aggression against the Church has embarrassed Lutheran theologians ever since, and it opened the way for Calvanist influences, since Lutheranism was going to take a back seat from this point onward in the Protestant world.

    The response by the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, was completely lackluster.  Jones really sums it up nicely when he quotes a historian named Walsh who said that "Charles seemd unaware, most of his life, that he was surrounded by the agents of an international conspiracy to destroy everything that his heart loved and revered."  Charles V's ignorant decisions led to the Jewish consolidation of power.  He promised the expelled Jewish conversos that they could settle in the Spanish Netherlands as long as they did not revert to Judaism or Judaize.  But they did it anyway.  They transformed Antwerp in to "the center of that commercial system which was soon to be superseded by a large international life ... a stately and egotistical city" which was then the center of the Jewish money power, driven from Spain three quarters of a century before.  Along the river were massive warehouses, stuffed with treasures from the eands of the earth."  It was with this kind of power that Jewish subversive powers were enabled to aid in the growing Calvinist plots, among others.  Charles V learned in 1545 that Marranos from Spain and Portugal were sending secret arms shipment to Turkey, and so four years later, Charles V, the Holy Roman Emperor, expelled the Marranos from Antwerp.  However, many of the Jews remained as Catholics, while others simply converted and ran over to England.  Yet:

    Quote
    Despite expelling the Jews from Antwerp, Charles was at a loss deciding how to deal with so subtle an enemy.  Perhaps passion clouded Charles' judgment.  According to Walsh, 'If the Emperor had put on the strong armor of sanctity which the Church, his wife and his conscience had often urged upon him the result might have been different, but a Charles dallying with lusty Barbara Blomberg between fits of gout and spurts of gluttony was no match for the Jews.


    Way to go Charles.  Thanks a million.  

    Church action, and Jewish-Protestant relations...

    The Council of Trent reconvened in 1561, though the English bishops were not there.  Queen Elizabeth, in good ol' persecution mode, was not allowing papal delegates in to the country to announce the council.  Nevertheless, the Church tied up 17 years of loose ends with the Council of Trent, and the council provided the church leaders with a blueprint that would help to reverse much of the damage of the last 100 years.  Jones describes how Pius IV "took a knife to his own household," and soon a Counter Reformation ensued.  Jesuits were working in the New World at this point, and much zeal was spread there.  We might also want to thank the Holy Virgin Mary for her appearence to the Aztecs at that time.  However, the seeds of Protestantism in Europe had taken root, and Jewish involvement was obvious to everyone.  

    This great passage I'm about to type is from page 341 of the book, and I thought the entire page was worth noting.  Statements in brackets are my additions for your further enlightenment.

    Quote
         The evidence that Protestantism was Judaizing was there for all to see.  Graetz and Newman [Jewish historians] agree the Jews played an important role in the Protestant revolt.  Walsh quotes Cabrera, a Spanish Marrano, who claims "most of the heresiarchs and heretics of this present Century have been of those people," i.e., the Jews.  "It is beyond question," he continues, citing another Jewish historian, that "the first leaders of the Protestant sects were called semi-Judaei, or half-Jews, in all parts of Europe," and "men of Jewish descent were as conspicuous among them as they had been among the Gnostics and would later be among the Communists."
         Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin were all students of Nicholas of Lyra, a Franciscan monk of Jewish descent who lived in the 14th Century.  Nicholas got his ideas from Raschi, who was teh conduit that allowed the Talmudic scholarship of his father, Isaac of Troyes, to flow directly into Protestantism.  Reuchlin was another conduit [see chapter seven if you folks are interested in the Reuchlin topic; he was fascinated with the Cabala, and so he debated with a genuine Jewish convert named Pfefferkorn, and he justified Jewish books to the authorities.  Corruption won the day for Reuchlin].  When Pfefferkorn accused Reuchlin of being in the pay of the Jews to disseminate their propaganda, the essential truth of the charge caused Reuchlin to issue a violent denial in his pamphlet Augenspiegel.  Reuchlin's battle with the Cologne Dominicans was the diversion that allowed Luther to issue his 95 theses with impunity.  In each instance, Protestantism exhibited not an advance over Catholic thought, but "one long retrogression toward the moribund Judaism of the Pharisees of the time of Christ."
         Conversos waiting impatiently to throw off the pretext of Catholicism were in communion with the Jews throughout Europe and together they formed the nucleus for the coming international revolt.  Their skill in finance and printing made them powerful culture warriors who could influence events in ways their opponents had difficulty understanding, and they were quick to put these skills in the service of Messianic political movements.  The constant in Jewish participation in revolution from Simon bar Kokhba to Trotsky was not race but rejection of Christ.  Revolution was a theological project from its inception:

    It was their great tragedy that, having failed to understand Who Christ was, (the Jews) could not get rid of the messianic consciousness for which they had been chosen and consecrated.  Finding closed to them the only spiritual door to salvation, they were constantly driven to seek redemption in the here and now, in the resources of matter, in gold and power, in anything, anywhere but Christ.  When all their kindom had turned to dust in their patient hands, and the inevitable scourge of persecution came to scatter them again and again, they still followed leaders who kept them blind, and remained missionaries of what Saint John called "the spirit that dissolves Christ."

         Many of the Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal fled to cities in France.  Many more made their way to the Spanish Netherlands, where Charles allowed them to flourish.  Lucien Wolf claims large numbers of English Protestants--"and doubtless the most active in propaganda and organization" --were Jews who had become Calvinists in Antwerp where they were active in the Protestant movement and "had given up their mask of Catholicism for a not less hollow pretense of Calvinism."  There was a natural affinity between the Calvinists and the Jews.  Both were "enemies of Rome, Spain and the Inquisition."  And Calvinism was a form of Christianity similar to Judaism in its attitude toward idolatry and the law.  As a result, the Jews "became zealous and valuable allies of the Calvanists."


    Now we turn back to John Dee's England, aka "Perfidious Albion"...

    Apparently, Elizabeth enacted a reign of terror against Catholics in England that I, as an American, was not aware of.  

    The first act of Parliament under her abolished the spiritual jurisdiction and authority of the pope in England; this was called the Act of Supremacy.  Its design was to eradicate the Catholic faith from England.  Next, Parliament abolished the Mass, making it a criminal offense to say or hear it.  All spiritual jurisdiction belonged to the Queen, and an English citizen had to attend the new worship or suffer fines.  Those who refused the new worship were refusers who often were martyred.  English bishops did not assent to this, so they were replaced with political opportunists.  Those new evil bishops then replaced the loyal Catholic clergy with corrupt clergy.

    Queen Elizabeth was becoming a tool of William Cecil a politician, and her advisor, the founder of the Cecil dynasty.  The inactivity of the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, and later Philip II, emboldened Cecil and others like him to hold onto the stolen Catholic monastery treasuries, and they were emboldened to put forth their activism in England.  Later in 1559, John Knox returned to Scotland, and after collaborating with Elizabeth's advisor, Cecil, they bought off the Scottish nobility with money stolen from Catholic monasteries, and soon Scotlant had banished the Catholic Faith.  Mass attendance became a capital crime, and Mary, Queen of Scots, "became a prisoner in her own country."  

    With all of Europe in Protestant upheaval, Cecil felt emboldened to antagonize the Holy Roman Emperor.  Soon, Elizabeth was in charge of an anti-Catholic crusade.  Soon, it seemed as if there were no difference between being English and being Protestant.  Elizabeth sought to "press th eadvantage of the 'invisible kingdom of opposition.'"  Queen Elizabeth:

    Quote
    sent emissaries to the kings of Denmark and Sweden, the princes of Germany and the rulers of Switzerland "and all States alienated from the Catholic Church," proposing a league "not only for the defense of their religion but for its propagation and to so much for the security of their own affairs as to cause trouble and detriment to the Crown of France."  To dispose men's minds to this effect she sent four English preachers, four Germans and one Frenchman, from England to Germany, who, feigning to be moved by religious zeal and ardor, went to visit many cities and princes, sometimes themselves preaching what they thought might most facilitate their object, and sometimes making the local preachers perform the office."
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline guitarplucker

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    LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part
    « Reply #12 on: August 04, 2012, 01:49:42 PM »
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  • Again, interesting stuff!

    Reading about the hugely influential role the Jews have performed in European history, all of it negative, I'd like some Catholic historian to one day write a general history that distinguishes European achievements from Jewish achievements falsely attributed to Europeans. I bet few Protestants know that their early leaders were basically marranos. It's a form of Judaization to not have a Catholic view of history, since the default histories are basically pro-Jewish and conceal much.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part
    « Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 02:11:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: guitarplucker
    Again, interesting stuff!

    Reading about the hugely influential role the Jews have performed in European history, all of it negative, I'd like some Catholic historian to one day write a general history that distinguishes European achievements from Jewish achievements falsely attributed to Europeans. I bet few Protestants know that their early leaders were basically marranos. It's a form of Judaization to not have a Catholic view of history, since the default histories are basically pro-Jewish and conceal much.


    Well, I think this book I'm whittling through is basically what yer looking for.  

    I hope to add some more summary today, but it depends on how busy I will be.  The chapter is just now getting interesting, and the John Dee magikal mystery tour is about to begin.  We got a whole 50+ pages more, and each page is dense with info.  Should be fun.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline roscoe

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    LaramieHirsch, please share your John Dee info when you come to that part
    « Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 02:36:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Doctor Faustus in Marlowe also was supposedly based on John Dee -- and James Bond ( Her Majesty's Secret Service, a sort of spook working for the occult queen ).

    The Spanish Armada was allegedly defeated because John Dee was in Spain around that time, collecting information, and then smuggled a book giving away information about the Spanish to the English. The book appeared to be a harmless egghead alchemical tract; it was really cipher, code, giving away the plans of the Spanish, how many ships they had, things of this nature. How else could Elizabeth's pukey navy defeat the mighty navy of Spain, which was a wonder of the world?



    The main reason the Armada was scattered is because of the weather. It is somewhat of a myth that it was defeated. Philips Navy continued to harass the Prots for yrs. Source--- W Walsh
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

     

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