Author Topic: Knights of Columbus.  (Read 4179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Oremus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 121
  • Reputation: +38/-0
  • Gender: Male
Knights of Columbus.
« on: November 27, 2010, 08:31:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Are any of you members of the Knight of Columbus? I am currently a member and I'm finding that it is difficult to remain a member and be a good Catholic. I know that sounds odd considering the organization is supposed to make Catholic men better Catholics, but I'm finding that there are a lot of things I don't agree with.

    Earlier today I was with my fellow Knights and many of them spent the majority of the time gawking at female joggers and then "grading" them. They take over Masses and the guys that I have met on the state level are a bit stuck up. They're more about patriotism than they are about anything else. They ask me to lead the rosary because they don't know how to pray it properly (and I'm the new convert). And I could be very wrong, but that has been my experience with them so far.

    I've had the feeling that I may have to quit unless I can find a really traditional bunch of guys.

    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12714
    • Reputation: +7/-12
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #1 on: November 27, 2010, 08:50:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Offline OHCA

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2813
    • Reputation: +1839/-107
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #2 on: November 27, 2010, 09:42:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Oremus,

    Thanks for opening discussion about K of C.  I have always been uncomfortable with the concept of the organization.  I started to open a thread asking for thoughts and experiences a few weeks ago, but something inside me said "don't open that can of worms."

    But now that it's open, are K of C Chapters common in traditional parishes?  Does SSPX have K of C Chapters?

    It is my understanding that K of C was formed as a response to Freemasonry.  I also know that K of C does some wonderful things.  Maybe their structure mimics the Freemasons too much for me, but for whatever reason, I've never been comfortable.  I've turned down numerous invitations to meetings and to join.  I'm sure most of the individual members, at least in my parish, are well-meaning.  Bit something doesn't click right about it with me.

    Telesphorus,

    Thanks for posting the link to that article.  

    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4847
    • Reputation: +2190/-7
    • Gender: Female
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #3 on: November 27, 2010, 09:50:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Common sense tells me the various chapters have their unique spirits.

    I'll bet there are still a number of fine men in these clubs.

    Offline Oremus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 121
    • Reputation: +38/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #4 on: November 27, 2010, 10:50:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Very old article critical of the Knights of Columbus


    Thanks for the link.

    I do have some "rebuttals." We are not a secret society. Our ceremonials are secret so that we do not ruin the moment for people that are participating in them for the first time. As you can probably imagine, knowing what is going to happen often ruins the surprise for you, so that's the only reason why our ceremonials are secret.

    There is no struggle for "authority" with the Catholic Church. The K of C serves the needs of the parish through fund raising, manpower at events like parish picnics etc.

    I will agree with the author of that article on one thing, and I mentioned this before: K of C tends to take over Masses that they are involved with. They love to show up in their color corps uniforms and the attention is immediately focused on them when they are around. That's one thing that I do not like about the organization. Nothing should distract from the real reason Mass is celebrated.


    Offline Oremus

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 121
    • Reputation: +38/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 10:57:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: OHCA
    Oremus,

    Thanks for opening discussion about K of C.  I have always been uncomfortable with the concept of the organization.  I started to open a thread asking for thoughts and experiences a few weeks ago, but something inside me said "don't open that can of worms."

    But now that it's open, are K of C Chapters common in traditional parishes?  Does SSPX have K of C Chapters?

    It is my understanding that K of C was formed as a response to Freemasonry.  I also know that K of C does some wonderful things.  Maybe their structure mimics the Freemasons too much for me, but for whatever reason, I've never been comfortable.  I've turned down numerous invitations to meetings and to join.  I'm sure most of the individual members, at least in my parish, are well-meaning.  Bit something doesn't click right about it with me.

    Telesphorus,

    Thanks for posting the link to that article.  


    1. As far as I know, K of C is not present in traditional parishes like the SSPX. That's another thing that really bothers me. Part of the reason they don't have K of C in SSPX parishes is because one must be a Catholic in good standing to be a member, and they don't consider SSPX to be in good standing (from what I've heard). Yet I hear about K of C joining the Masons all the time and there's no problem. When I tried to bring it up I got shot down.

    2. K of C was started by a diocesan priest who realized that his parishioners needed monetary assistance because they were discriminated against by potential employers and insurance companies. Back in the late 1800's, Catholics, especially immigrant Catholics, were considered a liability, so Fr. McGiveney formed the K of C to help those in need. When a member was sick or lost his job, the other members would pitch in and help them. Soon it became an organized thing.

    No one can really know if K of C was formed to counter Freemasonry. Our ceremonials are secret, but like I told Telesphorus, our secrecy is merely to keep the surprise for people participating for the first time. We are not a secret organization. From what I've been told, the ceremonies of the K of C and the Masons are completely different.

    Offline Roman Catholic

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2679
    • Reputation: +396/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 03:14:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Oremus


    Earlier today I was with my fellow Knights and many of them spent the majority of the time gawking at female joggers and then "grading" them.



    Get out now mate! Those guys are not just disedifying; they are an occasion of sin!

    Not to mention all the other problems with the modern Novus Ordo K of C.

    Offline stevusmagnus

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3728
    • Reputation: +824/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 07:50:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I lost respect for the K of C when prominent members in New York made known they were pro-choice and they were not expelled.

    The problem with K of C is simply that they are entrenched in the NO.

    I suppose the Society could start their own version, like they do with the Legion of Mary. Problem is that the Knights would never let their name be used by the SSPX. It seems the Society parishes simply have a men's group which is focused on the Traditional faith. This seems good enough for me. All the K of C does in the NO is typically fund raiders anyway.


    Offline CyberSaint

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 41
    • Reputation: +14/-0
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #8 on: November 28, 2010, 09:08:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is easy to judge the whole based on experiences with the few.

    Since the Order has sinners in every level, you may expect to encounter sin, brokenness, error, etc. whenever you attend a KofC function.

    The reasons for the Order's existence are laudatory, and their work on behalf of the Pope, the needy, and the unborn are exemplary.

    I advise, as your brother in Christ, and as a Knight, that you pray about it, do whatever due diligence you decide is best, and then make your decision, as you would do for any other activity that takes up your time and which you are having questions/concerns about.

    I ask you do not, however, hastily and broadly put the order down because of your experiences, for there are many good men in it who are sincerely working out their salvation and trying to serve God and fellow men, and they could use all the help they can get.

    Pray for us, as we are sinners in need of Grace.

    Regards,

    CyberSaint

    Tempus fugit memento mori
    Ad vivendum cotidie abeo

    Offline Arborman

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 146
    • Reputation: +37/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #9 on: November 28, 2010, 12:50:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am a member of the Knights of Columbus thru my old NO parish which I no longer attend.  Like Oremus said, the initiation ceremony is secret only because they want to make it special to the new initiates.  There is nothing in the ceremony that any Catholic could not agree to.  But like Elizabeth said, all the chapters are different. My old NO council had some very devout Catholic men who took their faith seriously.

    I do have some worries about them though.  For one the magazine is called the Columbia or Colombian.  This is too close to the pagan goddess of the same name.  Another worry for me is their total devotion to the local Bishops and the Pope, they will be loyal no matter what they say, and I believe the leadership is friendly with the Masons.

    I believe  the local chapters are just there to help the local parish's, but I am suspicious of the high leadership.
    To Jesus thru Mary, for the greater glory of God.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8213
    • Reputation: +7164/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #10 on: November 28, 2010, 07:28:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: OHCA
    Oremus,

    Thanks for opening discussion about K of C.  I have always been uncomfortable with the concept of the organization.  I started to open a thread asking for thoughts and experiences a few weeks ago, but something inside me said "don't open that can of worms."

    But now that it's open, are K of C Chapters common in traditional parishes?  Does SSPX have K of C Chapters?

    It is my understanding that K of C was formed as a response to Freemasonry.  I also know that K of C does some wonderful things.  Maybe their structure mimics the Freemasons too much for me, but for whatever reason, I've never been comfortable.  I've turned down numerous invitations to meetings and to join.  I'm sure most of the individual members, at least in my parish, are well-meaning.  Bit something doesn't click right about it with me.

    Telesphorus,

    Thanks for posting the link to that article.  


    The Knights of Columbus are never seen in Traditional parishes. They did attend the Pontifical High Mass that was broadcast on EWTN back in April with the FSSP, but that wasn't actually a Traditional parish. You could tell it had been modernised. And the Knights of Columbus will attend any big event that they are invited to by Rome or whatever regardless of whether the FSSP is in attendance or not. They will never, however, be associated with the SSPX because the SSPX will never invite them to anything. As far as the Knights of Columbus being freemasonic, I have heard rumors about that being true but I'm not 100% sure on that one. I am pretty sure that some kind of Knights (the Knights of Malta I think, could be wrong though) are freemasonic, I just don't know exactly who is. I don't recommend remaining with the Knights if you want to be a good Catholic.


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 11:38:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Oremus
    Are any of you members of the Knight of Columbus? I am currently a member and I'm finding that it is difficult to remain a member and be a good Catholic. I know that sounds odd considering the organization is supposed to make Catholic men better Catholics, but I'm finding that there are a lot of things I don't agree with.

    Earlier today I was with my fellow Knights and many of them spent the majority of the time gawking at female joggers and then "grading" them. They take over Masses and the guys that I have met on the state level are a bit stuck up. They're more about patriotism than they are about anything else. They ask me to lead the rosary because they don't know how to pray it properly (and I'm the new convert). And I could be very wrong, but that has been my experience with them so far.

    I've had the feeling that I may have to quit unless I can find a really traditional bunch of guys.


    I have been 3rd degree for many yrs, no intention of paying my dues, not advancing further.....

    K of C tends to breed heavy Americanism, but little piety (most Knights never show up for rosaries,Masses,etc in their honor unless it is a big wig there and hence, a photo op).

    Solange Hertz' book notes isseus with them, would love to know if the Founder was a Irish Americanist, like so many early members or not......

    too much like Freemasonry, in the main, let alone the secret group within the K of C that few know about and few can find out about....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 11:40:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Oremus
    I do have some "rebuttals." We are not a secret society. Our ceremonials are secret so that we do not ruin the moment for people that are participating in them for the first time. As you can probably imagine, knowing what is going to happen often ruins the surprise for you, so that's the only reason why our ceremonials are secret.


    so, then, your first post was hook to then debunk K of C debunkers then?

    between this post and the first one ,a real shift in tone......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 11:44:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Oremus
    Quote from: OHCA
    Oremus,

    Thanks for opening discussion about K of C.  I have always been uncomfortable with the concept of the organization.  I started to open a thread asking for thoughts and experiences a few weeks ago, but something inside me said "don't open that can of worms."

    But now that it's open, are K of C Chapters common in traditional parishes?  Does SSPX have K of C Chapters?

    It is my understanding that K of C was formed as a response to Freemasonry.  I also know that K of C does some wonderful things.  Maybe their structure mimics the Freemasons too much for me, but for whatever reason, I've never been comfortable.  I've turned down numerous invitations to meetings and to join.  I'm sure most of the individual members, at least in my parish, are well-meaning.  Bit something doesn't click right about it with me.

    Telesphorus,

    Thanks for posting the link to that article.  


    1. As far as I know, K of C is not present in traditional parishes like the SSPX. That's another thing that really bothers me. Part of the reason they don't have K of C in SSPX parishes is because one must be a Catholic in good standing to be a member, and they don't consider SSPX to be in good standing (from what I've heard). Yet I hear about K of C joining the Masons all the time and there's no problem. When I tried to bring it up I got shot down.

    2. K of C was started by a diocesan priest who realized that his parishioners needed monetary assistance because they were discriminated against by potential employers and insurance companies. Back in the late 1800's, Catholics, especially immigrant Catholics, were considered a liability, so Fr. McGiveney formed the K of C to help those in need. When a member was sick or lost his job, the other members would pitch in and help them. Soon it became an organized thing.

    No one can really know if K of C was formed to counter Freemasonry. Our ceremonials are secret, but like I told Telesphorus, our secrecy is merely to keep the surprise for people participating for the first time. We are not a secret organization. From what I've been told, the ceremonies of the K of C and the Masons are completely different.


    another good example of the swithc in dialectic then......no, the masons say the same things, that the rituals are secret due to not wanting to ruin it for others....

    what about the blindfolds used in at least degree #1? same as Masons......waht about the skull in degree #1? dont Masons and Skull/Bones use same imagery?
    waht about the oaths not to tell anyone of ceremony, even spouses,etc??? same as masonry.

    how do you explain the near idol worship of the USA, the military,etc?

    why did Karl Anderson go to the UN to promote his book, but no denunciations of the UN?

    why did the K of C not defend the Church in the 60s' onwards? why does it go along with almost anything?
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6601
    • Reputation: +614/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Knights of Columbus.
    « Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 11:46:50 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: CyberSaint
    It is easy to judge the whole based on experiences with the few.

    Since the Order has sinners in every level, you may expect to encounter sin, brokenness, error, etc. whenever you attend a KofC function.

    The reasons for the Order's existence are laudatory, and their work on behalf of the Pope, the needy, and the unborn are exemplary.

    I advise, as your brother in Christ, and as a Knight, that you pray about it, do whatever due diligence you decide is best, and then make your decision, as you would do for any other activity that takes up your time and which you are having questions/concerns about.

    I ask you do not, however, hastily and broadly put the order down because of your experiences, for there are many good men in it who are sincerely working out their salvation and trying to serve God and fellow men, and they could use all the help they can get.

    Pray for us, as we are sinners in need of Grace.



    they do a lot of charity fine-so too do Masons.....a lot of talk there, but no support of real pro-life initiatives......after laughable and sad 4 yrs of GW Bush, he was a virtual rock star at the K of C convention in 2004, perfect timing too for a visit from him.......hmm.... :rolleyes:

    interesting, is it not, Obama goes to CINO Notre dame, a lot of anger and flap over it, GW Bush goes to K of C, nothing......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16