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Author Topic: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic  (Read 4331 times)

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Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 07:13:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on July 12, 2018, 03:59:49 PM

    He's just there for jury duty -- we shouldn't over-complicate anything if asked to do so and just follow the laws as best as we can. Nor should one expect to swear on a Catholic translation of Scripture in a country that is majority Protestant.
    It doesn't matter whether he is judge, jury, or executioner. Nobody is supposed to swear to God nor to anyone or anything for that matter. Read Matthew 5:36-37. The next time someone asks you to swear on a Bible or swear to anyone or to anything (whether it be religious or secular), tell them to Read Matthew 5:36-37 and then adamantly refuse to do so.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #16 on: July 12, 2018, 07:15:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hank Igitur Orate Fratre on July 12, 2018, 07:13:18 PM
    It doesn't matter whether he is judge, jury, or executioner. Nobody is supposed to swear to God nor to anyone or anything for that matter. Read Matthew 5:36-37. The next time someone asks you to swear on a Bible or swear to anyone or to anything (whether it be religious or secular), tell them to Read Matthew 5:36-37 and then adamantly refuse to do so.
    As stated by another member above, one can "affirm".  Refusal to do so would be contempt of court.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #17 on: July 12, 2018, 07:21:08 PM »
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    • The Cardinals swear an oath of secrecy upon the Gospels before a conclave, so your assertion that this is a sin is a false Protestant interpretation of scripture.  
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #18 on: July 12, 2018, 07:22:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on July 12, 2018, 07:15:45 PM
    As stated by another member above, one can "affirm".  Refusal to do so would be contempt of court.
    Sure they can "affirm" but that's not the same thing. The courts don't ask people "Do you affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?" 

    They ask: "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?" 

    Therefore, when asked that specific question, a Christian must respond to said question with an emphatic "NO!" because their God, Jesus Christ, has told him/her so in Matthew 5:36-37.
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #19 on: July 12, 2018, 07:27:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 12, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
    The Cardinals swear an oath of secrecy upon the Gospels before a conclave, so your assertion that this is a sin is a false Protestant interpretation of scripture.  
    Indeed they do. It is not worth making a scene in court and potentially getting arrested over a misinterpretation of Scripture. 
    Quote from: Hank Igitur Orate Fratre on July 12, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
    Sure they can "affirm" but that's not the same thing. The courts don't ask people "Do you affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

    They ask: "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

    Therefore, when asked that specific question, a Christian must respond to said question with an emphatic "NO!" because their God, Jesus Christ, has told him/her so in Matthew 5:36-37.
    A bogus Protestantized interpretation of Scripture. If asked in jury duty or in a trial if asked to witness, say yes. You are not going to lie in court.
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #20 on: July 12, 2018, 07:29:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 12, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
    The Cardinals swear an oath of secrecy upon the Gospels before a conclave, so your assertion that this is a sin is a false Protestant interpretation of scripture.
    Take a close look at all of the buffoonish Cardinals in today's Novus Ordo Church and then tell me that their oaths mean anything other than mockery and deceit. Matthew 5:36-37 isn't the mere words of "some lackey like St. Paul or an insignificant Pope," (to use the language of some Novus Ordo people) rather, they are the words of Jesus Christ and there's no other way to interpret said passage.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #21 on: July 12, 2018, 07:31:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hank Igitur Orate Fratre on July 12, 2018, 07:13:18 PM
    It doesn't matter whether he is judge, jury, or executioner. Nobody is supposed to swear to God nor to anyone or anything for that matter. Read Matthew 5:36-37. The next time someone asks you to swear on a Bible or swear to anyone or to anything (whether it be religious or secular), tell them to Read Matthew 5:36-37 and then adamantly refuse to do so.
    Below is the note  on "not to swear at all" in the Douay Rheims in bold italics

    [33] Again you have heard that it was said to them of old, Thou shalt not forswear thyself: but thou shalt perform thy oaths to the Lord. [34] But I say to you not to swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God: [35] Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king:
    [34] "Not to swear at all": It is not forbid to swear in truth, justice and judgment; to the honour of God, or our own or neighbour's just defence: but only to swear rashly, or profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity.
    [36] Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.  
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #22 on: July 12, 2018, 07:36:08 PM »
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    • We are not going to risk contempt of court and looking puerile over Protestant interpretations of Scripture. 

    If Paul the Peppy Protestant wants to rant and scream like a child over how he thinks the KJV gives him free license to commit contempt of court based on his interpretation of St. Matthew's Gospel, there's no one stopping him.

    We're Catholics, we don't do that, Hank Igitur. We are better than every man for himself interpreting Scripture as he sees fit!
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #23 on: July 12, 2018, 07:37:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on July 12, 2018, 07:31:56 PM
    Below is the note  on "not to swear at all" in the Douay Rheims in bold italics
    Your reference to the Douay Rheims Bible is null and void since Pope Pius XII's September 30, 1943 Encyclical "Divino Afflante Spiritu" made said Bible obsolete. When you cite Douay Rheims, you're no different than a Protestant who references the erroneous King James Version Bible. 

    My advice to you would be to read "Divino Afflante Spiritu" and then reference a Knox Bible or Jerusalem Bible. 
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #24 on: July 12, 2018, 07:41:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on July 12, 2018, 07:36:08 PM
    We are not going to risk contempt of court and looking puerile over Protestant interpretations of Scripture.

    If Paul the Peppy Protestant wants to rant and scream like a child over how he thinks the KJV gives him free license to commit contempt of court based on his interpretation of St. Matthew's Gospel, there's no one stopping him.

    We're Catholics, we don't do that, Hank Igitur. We are better than every man for himself interpreting Scripture as he sees fit!
    You do not have to risk contempt of court. All you have to do is ask them to re-phrase the question by changing the word "swear" to the word "affirm." Or one can merely say "I affirm to tell the truth" after the court asks you its blasphemous question. 
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #25 on: July 12, 2018, 07:44:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Hank Igitur Orate Fratre on July 12, 2018, 07:37:26 PM
    Your reference to the Douay Rheims Bible is null and void since Pope Pius XII's September 30, 1943 Encyclical "Divino Afflante Spiritu" made said Bible obsolete. When you cite Douay Rheims, you're no different than a Protestant who references the erroneous King James Version Bible.

    My advice to you would be to read "Divino Afflante Spiritu" and then reference a Knox Bible or Jerusalem Bible.
    1) [from Hank Igitur: "in today's Novus Ordo Church"]
    [also from Hank Igitur: "Jerusalem Bible", the translation used in England & Wales after Vatican II and today] 

    2) The Douay-Rheims will always be a Catholic translation of Scripture.
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #26 on: July 12, 2018, 07:52:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on July 12, 2018, 07:44:52 PM
    2) The Douay-Rheims will always be a Catholic translation of Scripture.
    If that's true, then what was the purpose of Pope Pius XII writing Divino Afflante Spiritu in 1943?
    And if you refuse to read a Jerusalem Bible, then why not use the 1950 Knox Bible? 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #27 on: July 12, 2018, 08:05:07 PM »
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    • Quote
    Take a close look at all of the buffoonish Cardinals in today's Novus Ordo Church and then tell me that their oaths mean anything 
    Totally irrelevant!  The conclave oath has been around for centuries; not a modern invention. 

    Your scriptural interpretation is bogus.  “Render to Caesar that which is Caesars”, means you follow the laws of your country and take part in civil govt. 
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    Offline Hank Igitur Orate Fratre

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #28 on: July 12, 2018, 08:08:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 12, 2018, 08:05:07 PM
    Your scriptural interpretation is bogus.  “Render to Caesar that which is Caesars”, means you follow the laws of your country and take part in civil govt.
    You can still take part in civil government without committing the blasphemous act of "swearing to God." 

    As I have stated above:All you have to do is ask them to re-phrase the question by changing the word "swear" to the word "affirm." Or one can merely say "I affirm to tell the truth" after the court asks you its blasphemous question. 
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Jury Duty - traditional Catholic
    « Reply #29 on: July 12, 2018, 08:19:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 12, 2018, 08:05:07 PM
    Your scriptural interpretation is bogus.  “Render to Caesar that which is Caesars”, means you follow the laws of your country and take part in civil govt.
    The bible doesn't belong to Caesar.
    In Canada there are several ways of AFFIRMING you will tell the truth .
    1. You may be asked to swear on a Bible but if you decline, they will ask if you affirm to tell the truth.
    2. Muslims are asked to swear on the Koran
    By swearing on a book, you are DECLARING that you believe and hold precious what is in that book,
    So why would a Catholic swear on a protestant bible? (Our courts actually have both).
    You wouldn't expect a Muslim to swear on a bible, so no Catholic should swear on any book they don't believe in.
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