(putting in general as this does not pertain to the ongoing crisis in the church but rather old news)


I need a huge favor, if you could share any and all dirt on John Paul II it would be much appreciated.


Before you look down on me for something that sounds so petty, allow me a simple explanation. His good deeds and all the reasons why I should kiss his rear are well publicized and I have no trouble finding them. However it would seem that most people don't enjoy discussing his sins. For example there was something about a Buddhist statue being placed on an altar? Wikipedia mentioned close connections to a notorious pedo priest.


Quite a few of you don't believe the church has had a legitimate pope since V2 so you should have no issue if I question the legitimacy of a V2 Saint. To the rest of you, I have never heard of a saint being declared in a 10 year period, specifically someone who was completely unremarkable during his life in every way and even bad. The pedo scandals were grossly mishandled, he's praised for opposing communism, an ideology that hates religion so is naturally condemned by the religious. His legacy is the nightmare we call the modern Catholic Church. The only things I've ever heard that made me think maybe he isn't all bad (not saint worthy though) is reaffirming some really basic concepts like abortion is still murder (in case everyone forgot) or that people shouldn't have a two digit sɛҳuąƖ body count (SHOCKING!!!). The 'mass conversions' are not worth bothering with. Historically Catholic poland returned to Catholicism after their communist overlords up and died. Who could've seen that coming. It's not like a religious revival occurred in most of post soviet Europe after the USSR died. Oh wait it did. The cherry on top has to be all the 'catholics' running around these days spreading heartfelt messages of queer love and child murder. Like him or hate him this is his legacy. He was pope for a good long time, the modern church was forged under his guidance and I refuse to believe this living nightmare has earned anyone sainthood.


If theres an old thread you know about drop the title if you remember or even better the link. I'm absolutely positive you fine folks have already covered the topic ad nauseum so bear with me. If this comes off as a rant, it is. I'm tired folks. The kind of tired sleep wont fix.

God bless

Why don't you post your real name and provide a list your sins, or the sins committed by your mother, so we can discuss them instead?  

He's basically just expressing his wish to play the Devil's Advocate role that the Church would have played in the old canonisation process. 

Ignore Praeter.  He's just a Novus Ordo shill.

John Paul II was a religious indifferentist of the first order.  There's an old book out there called Peter, Lovest Thou Me? that catalogues much of this.

He also allowed and participated in many irreverent liturgical abominations.

At his core, he was a phenomenologist, another name of a subjectivist, or a relativist.

The problem is that when we start gossiping (and that's what it is) about other people's sins, we almost always fall into sin ourselves.

He's talking about public crimes and scandals against the faith committed by Wojtyla ... not about anything in the internal forum.

He's talking about public crimes and scandals against the faith committed by Wojtyla ... not about anything in the internal forum.

He said he wanted to talk about the sins of John Paul II, which requires a judgment of the internal forum.  And you conveniently left out the other reason I listed for avoiding this kind of public gossip, which I realize is the food that you and your fellow schismatics and heretics live on.  Have you ever examined your conscience on this?  If your conscience is not completely seared (1 Tim 4:2), such an examination should provide plenty of matter for your next invalid confession.

He said he wanted to talk about the sins of John Paul II, which requires a judgment of the internal forum.

No, it doesn't.  Things can be objectively sinful.  If I find a married man sleeping with someone who is not his wife, then he's objectively committing a sin.  We know what he's talking about, but you're polluting and derailing this thread in an attempt to shill for the Novus Ordo.  PS -- it is you who is schismatic, not I.

Praeter, stop derailing this thread with stupidity.  Nobody's talking about presuming to judge someone in the internal forum ... simply to discuss material/objective sins.

Before converting to Catholicism, I was part of a very anti-Catholic religion. We would use the photos and videos of Assisi in 1986 in challenging Catholics with the question of how in the world they could say with a straight face that this was an acceptable action of the supposed Vicar of Christ? Even we knew that this was apostasy.


The excuse making was sad to see.


The comments made by some on this thread to defend JPII are so pathetic it defies belief, but is typical. Everything that St. Pius X condemned in his writings against Modernism could be observed in JPII's public actions. One of the two had to be in error. I wager that it was the latter.