The Catholic Church investigates saints.  It doesn't 'plan' canonizations as if they were parties to be had once all the ducks were in a row.

Gang, as I try to enjoy some days by the beach, internally I'm on rapid fire.

First as disclosure: I am a convert from nominal Protestantism (first via Novus Ordo, then had Conditional Baptism and Confirmation via the Old Rite and a TLM-based order with explicit faculties.)  I accepted Pope Francis as a valid Pope, however tenuous that is on a given day, but I do not reject those with a SV position.  My rule is that as Saints have been wrong about who was Pope, certainly we can err in this unprecedented collapse in the Faith.

With that said, to my point.

The announcement that JPII and John XXIII are to be canonized in December did not shock me, though it did underscore our situation.  Keeping in mind I still regard Francis as Pope, this turn of events has left me with these thoughts:

1) The canonization will not happen.  If Francis attempts it, he will be prevented from pronouncing solemnly the rite of Canonization (e.g., riots, war, hurricanes, death, etc.)

2) Perhaps my worst fear: Francis will announce a type of canonization 'in a new sense' that perhaps is to 'transcend the boundaries of the Catholic Church' and be a 'common Saint.'  Or something similarly fuzzy and bogus.  That is to say, no solemn declaration.  Most will say he was canonized when in fact the form will have been defective.

3) Somehow God permits a Canonization.  The concept of sainthood is forever shattered, the entire institution being made a mockery.  And then all hell breaks loose soon after.


There is some good we can draw from this however.  I am quite surprised at the response many traditionalists (or at least neo-traditionalists) give: 'Sainthood just means he's in Heaven' and 'It is up to the Church's judgement to confer Sainthood to JPII [and not Isabella, Louis XVI, Dom Gueranger, etc.]'

This ho-hum attitude is quite disconcerting because it is a kind of doublethink.  It's a reduction of our Religion to formulas, legalities, and externals that is bereft of the heart and soul of what all of these really mean.  

We are talking about a man who A) preached consistent heresy B) performed numerous scandals C) was at best the worst administrator possible with regard to the abuse by the infamous Marcial Maciel D) literally oversaw the autodemolition of the Church's structure and E) left the world with the sense that the Catholic Church has 'changed' and now 'accepts' 'many ways and believes.'  This despite the graces of the Papal office.

This would be a radical, dramatic, amazing break with the entire stream of the Faith through the ages.  It would be like throwing black ooze all over the College of Saints, who have been so above and beyond the call of duty as to inspire us to just make it.

In discussions with some, it has become more apparent that the externals become the purpose, when the interior Catholic living is just not there.  The idea of domestic order and maturity among those younger, at least in my circles, is practically non-existent.

A sore point for me is the lack of any drive for vocations to the married state.  Everyone plays the theologian, has no idea about anything, and then at the end of the day either ignores their house or refuses to build it.

Greg, you have commented on the lack of aptitude among many traditionalists.  I must admit, in my limited observations, I see a lot of complaining of the same things that none of us can control or affect, save through assiduous prayer, while immediate things like career, family, and physical condition are left untended.

My perspective is that we are in so colossally bad a time that even many within the fold of 'trad communities' are falling into domestic disorder and slipping with a real grasp at the Faith.  Why?  I blame the hyper Thomism (or not Thomism properly so-called, but the rigid, cold manualistic formula version of the Faith) that ran through the 20th century.  Things become a series of rote notions to know.

And then you have people who wear lace in the morning, use awful language for no good reason, and say salvation is open for people who were never taught the Faith, let alone even indicated a desire for Baptism.

It is as though nothing really has meaning anymore.  The difference becomes that all too many fail to actually gain aptitude in practical arts because they are too busy role playing or not extirpating themselves from the degenerate and childish culture we are awash in.

Just to clarify, in case anyone was wondering, don't confuse any of this with Jansensim.  I take a lot of criticism for my keen interests in wine, beers and rum (and enjoying more than just a glass- nothing like hearing a rant against the Jansenists and then getting comments for having a few vodka tonics.)  

In sum, I meditate frequently on state of life.  For me, I have a better idea of the waypoints ahead of me before I marry.  

There's a whole lot more, but I don't want to go into specifics out of respect for the Order that brings me the Old Mass.

Anyway, it's radio silence for me as we fall ever deeper into this diabolical disorientation.

Quote from: KingTheoden

Gang, as I try to enjoy some days by the beach, internally I'm on rapid fire.

First as disclosure: I am a convert from nominal Protestantism (first via Novus Ordo, then had Conditional Baptism and Confirmation via the Old Rite and a TLM-based order with explicit faculties.)  I accepted Pope Francis as a valid Pope, however tenuous that is on a given day, but I do not reject those with a SV position.  My rule is that as Saints have been wrong about who was Pope, certainly we can err in this unprecedented collapse in the Faith.

With that said, to my point.

The announcement that JPII and John XXIII are to be canonized in December did not shock me, though it did underscore our situation.  Keeping in mind I still regard Francis as Pope, this turn of events has left me with these thoughts:

1) The canonization will not happen.  If Francis attempts it, he will be prevented from pronouncing solemnly the rite of Canonization (e.g., riots, war, hurricanes, death, etc.)

2) Perhaps my worst fear: Francis will announce a type of canonization 'in a new sense' that perhaps is to 'transcend the boundaries of the Catholic Church' and be a 'common Saint.'  Or something similarly fuzzy and bogus.  That is to say, no solemn declaration.  Most will say he was canonized when in fact the form will have been defective.

3) Somehow God permits a Canonization.  The concept of sainthood is forever shattered, the entire institution being made a mockery.  And then all hell breaks loose soon after.


There is some good we can draw from this however.  I am quite surprised at the response many traditionalists (or at least neo-traditionalists) give: 'Sainthood just means he's in Heaven' and 'It is up to the Church's judgement to confer Sainthood to JPII [and not Isabella, Louis XVI, Dom Gueranger, etc.]'

This ho-hum attitude is quite disconcerting because it is a kind of doublethink.  It's a reduction of our Religion to formulas, legalities, and externals that is bereft of the heart and soul of what all of these really mean.  

We are talking about a man who A) preached consistent heresy B) performed numerous scandals C) was at best the worst administrator possible with regard to the abuse by the infamous Marcial Maciel D) literally oversaw the autodemolition of the Church's structure and E) left the world with the sense that the Catholic Church has 'changed' and now 'accepts' 'many ways and believes.'  This despite the graces of the Papal office.

This would be a radical, dramatic, amazing break with the entire stream of the Faith through the ages.  It would be like throwing black ooze all over the College of Saints, who have been so above and beyond the call of duty as to inspire us to just make it.

In discussions with some, it has become more apparent that the externals become the purpose, when the interior Catholic living is just not there.  The idea of domestic order and maturity among those younger, at least in my circles, is practically non-existent.

A sore point for me is the lack of any drive for vocations to the married state.  Everyone plays the theologian, has no idea about anything, and then at the end of the day either ignores their house or refuses to build it.

Greg, you have commented on the lack of aptitude among many traditionalists.  I must admit, in my limited observations, I see a lot of complaining of the same things that none of us can control or affect, save through assiduous prayer, while immediate things like career, family, and physical condition are left untended.

My perspective is that we are in so colossally bad a time that even many within the fold of 'trad communities' are falling into domestic disorder and slipping with a real grasp at the Faith.  Why?  I blame the hyper Thomism (or not Thomism properly so-called, but the rigid, cold manualistic formula version of the Faith) that ran through the 20th century.  Things become a series of rote notions to know.

And then you have people who wear lace in the morning, use awful language for no good reason, and say salvation is open for people who were never taught the Faith, let alone even indicated a desire for Baptism.

It is as though nothing really has meaning anymore.  The difference becomes that all too many fail to actually gain aptitude in practical arts because they are too busy role playing or not extirpating themselves from the degenerate and childish culture we are awash in.

Just to clarify, in case anyone was wondering, don't confuse any of this with Jansensim.  I take a lot of criticism for my keen interests in wine, beers and rum (and enjoying more than just a glass- nothing like hearing a rant against the Jansenists and then getting comments for having a few vodka tonics.)  

In sum, I meditate frequently on state of life.  For me, I have a better idea of the waypoints ahead of me before I marry.  

There's a whole lot more, but I don't want to go into specifics out of respect for the Order that brings me the Old Mass.

Anyway, it's radio silence for me as we fall ever deeper into this diabolical disorientation.

Are you just here practicing your creative writing skills?

First you are a convert so we are think you're new.  Then you went through a laundry list of changes with no real explanation of why you were in each one of those stages.  Then, you profess your bona fides as a novus ordites (willingly or not) by professing Pope Francis to be pope.  Then, it's on to the cliche'd attack on the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church being mere formulas (which worked by the way!) then on to bemoaning the present circuмstances.

In a later post, you engaged in LaShon HaRa against the Traditional Priests, who could nothing BUT valid.  

I guess you could post in the Catholic Living section or in the Health section and tell us about your collection of wines and other beverages.  

Now, I do apologize if I have misread you.