Author Topic: Jews still Gods chosen people  (Read 2986 times)

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Offline InfiniteFaith

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Jews still Gods chosen people
« on: October 28, 2013, 01:11:46 PM »
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  • I was talking to a priest on saturday, and he tells me that Jews are still God's chosen people but in order for them to receive the promise they have to convert and be Baptized. I think in the Old Testament they were promised to be higher up in the hierarchy in heaven. This was an everlasting covenant established before Christ.

    I must admit that I had a problem with this concept at first. It says in the New Testament that there is neither Jew nor Gentile. But I trust that this priest has the better overall understanding of it all.

    I have began thinking about this a little deeper, and am wondering if this means that Jewish converts to Catholicism trump Saints, Martyrs, etc. in Heaven.

    You also have to consider that Ashkenazi Jews are not of the Jewish race, and do not receive this promise. Also, there is the lost tribes of Israel so there could be a lot more people out there who are apart of the Israelite race and who share this promise. The priest told me that the French Kings believed they were descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel (Ephraim). This might explain why the French royalty and nobility have been mentioned as a "holy race" in prophecy. I have seen other theories about how most Europeans are very possibly descendants of the lost tribes. There is some evidence of this.

    Anyways, do Jewish Catholics trump martyrs, saints, historical figures like Charlemagne, or even figures to come like the Great Monarch in Heaven?

    Offline Cantarella

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 01:15:29 PM »
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  • No. Only Catholics are the chosen people of God since Christ Our Lord established the New Law.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Matto

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 01:18:01 PM »
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  • It would seem strange for a race to truly be God's chosen people when they all go to hell, except for some of those few who convert and then because of this are rejected by the rest of God's "chosen people."

    I thought that the Catholic elect were now God's chosen people.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 01:23:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    No. Only Catholics are the chosen people of God since Christ Our Lord established the New Law.


    You could be right. But in the Old Testament God established the Israelites to be his chosen people, and this was an everlasting covenant.

    Believe it or not, but there is a hierarchy in Heaven. This Hierarchy is headed by Christ and Mary followed by Angels, Old Testament Israelites, martyrs, saints, etc.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 01:35:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    It would seem strange for a race to truly be God's chosen people when they all go to hell, except for some of those few who convert and then because of this are rejected by the rest of God's "chosen people."

    I thought that the Catholic elect were now God's chosen people.


    Only when they convert to Catholicism and achieve Salvation do they receive the promise. Until then they are no different than any non-Christian. They are Satan's servants.


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 01:37:15 PM »
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  • Infinitefaith,

    Ask him if he thinks converting to Judaism is a bad idea.

    Ask him if the "Chosenness" has a blank spot for validation and does he think that only converting to Catholicism will put a Yes in the validation block?  If he looks at you as if you are a dope, then rephrase it by saying "Is the chosenness only a future promise predicating a conversion?"  

    Oh yes, one last but most important of all question....

    ...was the priest you were talking to novus ordo????

    Offline Cantarella

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 01:37:42 PM »
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  • Christ annuls the first Covenant to establish the Second. ~ Hebrews x.9

    Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His. ~ Daniel 9: 26

    Having turned from the Jews, the Lord will now abide in the hearts of the Gentiles. Accordingly, they who hate Him are passed by, and they who love Him are preferred before them. ~ St. Ambrose
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 01:58:47 PM »
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  • IF:
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    You also have to consider that Ashkenazi Jews are not of the Jewish race, and do not receive this promise.


    I think that is the major consideration.  The Ashkenazi are not true Israelite Jews descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They are the "jews" mentioned in Apocolypse 2:9 and 3:9, who say they are jews, but are not.  It is a false identity.  These are the Khazars who originated in what is today southern Russia between the Caspian and Black Sea.  These are Talmudites, never converted to the ancient Hebrew (Mosaic) religion, but to Babylonian Talmudism.  I don't think at this point one can not dispute this.  Among the Sephardic jews in and around the Mediterranean, on the other hand, one may find true Jews in the bloodline of the ancient Hebrew fathers.  St. Paul was never willing to suffer "anathema" for talmudic, faux jewry, but for his own people "in the flesh" who were true Israelits, "who have the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the legislation and the worship and the promises."  Rom. 9:4)  Also, very importantly, these true Jews were the blood ancestors of Christ Himself, something to which Khazarians, originating in the Caucasus, could never lay claim.  The grand majority of the people of so-called "Israel" today are Khazars.  We traditional Catholics ought to be clear about this.  A number of Protestant leaders are.  In fact, a number of Jewish scholars are.  I think of Arthur Koestler, author of The Thirteenth Tribe.  Other names like Benjamin Freedman and Alfred Lilianthal also come to mind.  Both these men are dead, BTW.  And I think  ROCOR Brother Nathanael Kapner would also confirm everything written here


    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 02:13:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Infinitefaith,

    Ask him if he thinks converting to Judaism is a bad idea.

    Ask him if the "Chosenness" has a blank spot for validation and does he think that only converting to Catholicism will put a Yes in the validation block?  If he looks at you as if you are a dope, then rephrase it by saying "Is the chosenness only a future promise predicating a conversion?"  

    Oh yes, one last but most important of all question....

    ...was the priest you were talking to novus ordo????


    SSPX. I no longer go to Novus Ordo Churches.

    Of course he is not going to approve of Converting to Judaism. It is a profitless religion.

    Yes the promise only applies TODAY if Jews convert to Catholicism and live holy lives. He said if this happens then Jews can make good Saints.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 02:16:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    He said if this happens then Jews can make good Saints.


    Just like everyone else.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 02:17:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    IF:
    Quote
    You also have to consider that Ashkenazi Jews are not of the Jewish race, and do not receive this promise.


    I think that is the major consideration.  The Ashkenazi are not true Israelite Jews descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They are the "jews" mentioned in Apocolypse 2:9 and 3:9, who say they are jews, but are not.  It is a false identity.  These are the Khazars who originated in what is today southern Russia between the Caspian and Black Sea.  These are Talmudites, never converted to the ancient Hebrew (Mosaic) religion, but to Babylonian Talmudism.  I don't think at this point one can not dispute this.  Among the Sephardic jews in and around the Mediterranean, on the other hand, one may find true Jews in the bloodline of the ancient Hebrew fathers.  St. Paul was never willing to suffer "anathema" for talmudic, faux jewry, but for his own people "in the flesh" who were true Israelits, "who have the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the legislation and the worship and the promises."  Rom. 9:4)  Also, very importantly, these true Jews were the blood ancestors of Christ Himself, something to which Khazarians, originating in the Caucasus, could never lay claim.  The grand majority of the people of so-called "Israel" today are Khazars.  We traditional Catholics ought to be clear about this.  A number of Protestant leaders are.  In fact, a number of Jewish scholars are.  I think of Arthur Koestler, author of The Thirteenth Tribe.  Other names like Benjamin Freedman and Alfred Lilianthal also come to mind.  Both these men are dead, BTW.  And I think  ROCOR Brother Nathanael Kapner would also confirm everything written here


    Yeah I agree. The ashkenazi's are fakes. I wonder if Brother Nathanael Kapner is of ashkenazi descent. I know he was raised Jewish but converted to Orthodoxy later.


    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 02:22:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    He said if this happens then Jews can make good Saints.


    Just like everyone else.


    Anyone can be a saint or a martyr yes. There are martyrs and saints from nearly every area of world. Those who achieve this status are given a seat in the hierarchy in heaven. From what the priest said, it sounded like martyrs trump saints though. Maybe not all of them, but in general they do.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 02:24:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Christ annuls the first Covenant to establish the Second. ~ Hebrews x.9

    Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His. ~ Daniel 9: 26

    Having turned from the Jews, the Lord will now abide in the hearts of the Gentiles. Accordingly, they who hate Him are passed by, and they who love Him are preferred before them. ~ St. Ambrose


    Yes, anyone who does not convert to Catholicism will not receive the promise. Not all descendants of the tribes make it to heaven. They don't receive the promise.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 02:33:06 PM »
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  • IF:
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    Yeah I agree. The ashkenazi's are fakes. I wonder if Brother Nathanael Kapner is of ashkenazi descent. I know he was raised Jewish but converted to Orthodoxy later.


    I think we can be certain that he is.  Nor do I think he would deny it.

    Offline Lighthouse

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    Jews still Gods chosen people
    « Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 03:10:36 PM »
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  • Infinite Faith,

    I can never understand why you start out with humble approach and admission of a lack of knowledge, and then a few sentences later you are making blistering dogmatic pronouncements sounding like Ramses II.



     

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