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Author Topic: Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta  (Read 18881 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

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Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
« on: April 07, 2015, 11:01:38 AM »
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  • Words of Jesus to Maria Valtorta, excerpted from Notebooks, April 9, 1944:

    “The Father is weary, and to cause the human race to perish He will let the punishments of Hell be unleashed.”…..
    “I would like to come a second time to die to save them from an even more atrocious death… but the Father does not allow this… He knows it would be useless… Oh, if only men were still able to turn to Me, who am salvation!”…

    Reminding Maria of a Dictation from June 5, 1943: “You would like Me to appear and show Myself…But, even if I showed Myself, where is that residue of faith and respect in hearts which would make them bend with their faces to the ground to ask Me for forgiveness and mercy?”…

    “I repeat what I have said a thousand times- the great sinners exist because the mass is all more or less guilty of the same sins as they are…”

    "Nothing is impossible for Me as God,  But it is the hour of the power of Darkness.  And men have spontaneously wanted it.  The kingdom of Evil is already established.  Anything I were to do would be rendered null by man’s will.  Any Good would be destroyed by Evil...

         “I impotently witness all humanity’s race towards spiritual death.  There is no gift, benefit, call, or punishment by Me that will serve to arrest this spontaneous shipwreck in Satan of mankind, redeemed by Me.  Like an enraged bull, humanity is demolishing everything: reason, morality, and faith, and it is heading for a crash against what slays it.  The profaning hand of man rises up for a new crime which does not deserve forgiveness.  And the Father does not want to forgive.  He lets you perish as you have wanted to.
         “The only thing I can do and do- and I do it out of mercy on the saints, who, as rare as flowers in the desert, still pray; they pray, not making an avowal of custom and hypocrisy- is to hold back the wrath of My Father, who, weary of the crimes of a race for which my Blood has been shed to no avail, goes on wanting and wanting to apply Justice to you.  And justice, since you are blameworthy, would mean tremendous punishments which my Mercy does not want to be added to those you cause yourselves by your own.
        “Maria, I know I am wounding and demoralizing you.  You had hoped for joy from my Easter.  Roses after thorns.  Smiles after tears.  You are a victim.  The thorns and tears remain even in the time of Easter, for it is necessary to stay on the cross for the sake of this perverse humanity…..”


    Online Ladislaus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 11:30:52 AM »
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  • False locutions.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 12:00:48 PM »
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  • ladislaus:
    Quote
    False locutions.


    Whoops!  Better talk to Bp. Williamson about that. :sign-surrender:

    Offline Malleus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 12:38:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    False locutions.


    I read a critique about them and the things they showed from these "revelations" were incredibly heretical, disgusting and just plain silly.

    Why do people push around this filth? Why is it plastered prominently on the drbo.org site?

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 02:47:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Malleus
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    False locutions.


    I read a critique about them and the things they showed from these "revelations" were incredibly heretical, disgusting and just plain silly.
    Why do people push around this filth? Why is it plastered prominently on the drbo.org site?


    Amen Malleus.  Any simple investigation into these so called revelations will reveal precisely what you describe.  There's more than one thread on Cathinfo with citations and commentary.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #5 on: April 07, 2015, 03:40:08 PM »
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  • Whoops again!  Some of you sweet trads had better go immediately to your bookshelf, and sweep from it the fairly new work by Hugh Aikins entitled ѕуηαgσgυє Rising.  (Maybe some of you already  have, being the smug, righteous lot that a good number of you are)

    Mr. Aikins wrote the following to Maurice Pinay on Apr 14, 2014

    "My friends:

    I wish my brother trads would set their priorities higher and busy themselves fighting the combats of Christ and stop letting so many self-appointed
    experts keep diverting our attention and splitting our ranks on relatively insignificant issues.

    The great Pope Pius XII strongly favored The Poem of the Man-God.  The great Abp. Lefebvre approved of it.  The great Bp. Williamson gives it
    his blessing.  THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME. "  


    Well now, unless one of you feverishly righteous folks can produce quotes from both Pius XII and Abp. Lefebvre to the contrary, then I guess I'm going to have to say, along with Mr. Aikins, that the alleged endorsements of these clerics are enough for me too.  Have a nice day! :furtive:

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #6 on: April 07, 2015, 03:48:59 PM »
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  • placed on the index of forbidden books 1/5/1960

    Good enough for me! :read-paper:
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 03:53:56 PM »
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  • thats how these "apparitions -locutions" spread by hearsay and rumor. they die on the vine when you look at what the church actually says by DOcuмENTATION
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 03:58:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    Words of Jesus to Maria Valtorta, excerpted from Notebooks, April 9, 1944:

    “The Father is weary, and to cause the human race to perish He will let the punishments of Hell be unleashed.”…..
    “I would like to come a second time to die to save them from an even more atrocious death… but the Father does not allow this… He knows it would be useless… Oh, if only men were still able to turn to Me, who am salvation!”…

    Reminding Maria of a Dictation from June 5, 1943: “You would like Me to appear and show Myself…But, even if I showed Myself, where is that residue of faith and respect in hearts which would make them bend with their faces to the ground to ask Me for forgiveness and mercy?”…

    “I repeat what I have said a thousand times- the great sinners exist because the mass is all more or less guilty of the same sins as they are…”

    "Nothing is impossible for Me as God,  But it is the hour of the power of Darkness.  And men have spontaneously wanted it.  The kingdom of Evil is already established.  Anything I were to do would be rendered null by man’s will.  Any Good would be destroyed by Evil...

         “I impotently witness all humanity’s race towards spiritual death.  There is no gift, benefit, call, or punishment by Me that will serve to arrest this spontaneous shipwreck in Satan of mankind, redeemed by Me.  Like an enraged bull, humanity is demolishing everything: reason, morality, and faith, and it is heading for a crash against what slays it.  The profaning hand of man rises up for a new crime which does not deserve forgiveness.  And the Father does not want to forgive.  He lets you perish as you have wanted to.
         “The only thing I can do and do- and I do it out of mercy on the saints, who, as rare as flowers in the desert, still pray; they pray, not making an avowal of custom and hypocrisy- is to hold back the wrath of My Father, who, weary of the crimes of a race for which my Blood has been shed to no avail, goes on wanting and wanting to apply Justice to you.  And justice, since you are blameworthy, would mean tremendous punishments which my Mercy does not want to be added to those you cause yourselves by your own.
        “Maria, I know I am wounding and demoralizing you.  You had hoped for joy from my Easter.  Roses after thorns.  Smiles after tears.  You are a victim.  The thorns and tears remain even in the time of Easter, for it is necessary to stay on the cross for the sake of this perverse humanity…..”


    There is a ring of truth to these words. Very terrifying, very heart-breaking. I think that when The Chastisement comes, it's going to be so much worse than anyone can imagine.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline Nadir

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 04:10:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus

    There is a ring of truth to these words. Very terrifying, very heart-breaking. I think that when The Chastisement comes, it's going to be so much worse than anyone can imagine.


    I was thinking the same thing, Miserere, but that does not mean there's sufficient poison in Valtorta to stay well away.

    This has all been done before on CathInfo. See http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Maria-Valtorta-and-her-Poem-of-the-Man-God

    Better still I will post this here:

     
    Quote from: Stephanos II
    From Tradition in Action: Valtorta's Poem of the Man-God

    Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God

    Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.
    Book review of Peom of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta,    10 volumes, online edition
     

    A friend recently sent me an e-mail asking about Maria Valtorta and her Poem of the Man-God. She received a recent issue of Kyrie Eleison comments of Bishop Richard Williamson titled “Home Reading” (October 20, 2012). In it, he recommends parents read selected chapters of the Poem of the Man-God to children every night.

    He admits the Poem is controversial and has many enemies, but he defends Valtorta’s massive tome (4,000 pages in 10 volumes of supposed visions she received of the life of Christ). The Bishop supports it, despite the objections he lists: that it is riddled with doctrinal errors, that it humanizes Our Lord Jesus Christ, and that the work was placed on the Church’s Index of Forbidden Books in the 1950s.

    He lightly dismisses all the arguments against it and concludes children will learn much about Our Lord and Our Lady from the Poem, which “will fortify a home.”

    “I have not read this book,” my friend continues, “but, for Heaven’s sake, why didn’t Bishop W. recommend reading the wonderful, approved, written-by-a-canonized saint 4-volume City of God by Mother Mary of Agreda? But that is beside the point. I really do wish to know if you approve of the Poem of the Man-God. Even the title upsets my Catholic sensibilities.”

    A humanized Christ

    I believe my friend should follow her good Catholic sense. The very title, the Man-God , expresses the spirit of the work. It is Jesus as a man that Valtorta presents: a babe suckling greedily at his Mother’s breasts, a youth hardly aware of Who He is, a Man who laughs and jokes with His Apostles and is constantly kissing them on the mouth and embracing them closely. Yes, at the least, it is difficult not to suspect this showy Jesus pictured in such way as having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies.

    Valtorta’s natural approach is supposed to attract the modern man to the Life of Christ. It is in tune with the progressivist doctrine that tries to deny the supernatural and instead presents Our Lady as a simple Jєωιѕн woman and focuses on Our Lord as being a man “like us.” As Atila Guimaraes points out in Animus Injuriandi I, the progressivist Church aims to de-mythify and de-supernaturalize Christ and His Mother under the guise of presenting a natural “historical” Christ and Mary.” I believe Valtorta’s Jesus and Mary fit this mold.



    An illustration of Valtorta's Jesus, a somewhat occult figure with a magnetic gaze

    Valtorta’s Man-God depiction is the opposite of the God-Man portrayed by Anne Catherine Emmerich and Ven. Mary of Agreda, whose life of Christ is presented from an elevated, supernatural vantage point. One cannot help but wonder why the traditionalist Bishop would not recommend these works, instead of the Valtorta tomes, which were officially condemned by the Holy Office and placed on the Index in December 1959 and defined by L’Osservatore Romano of January 6,1960 as “a badly fictionalized life of Jesus.”

    After Vatican II, Paul VI abolished the Index of Forbidden Books, and Valtorta’s supporters claim this nullifies the suppression of 1959. Unfortunately, the official position of the Church today is less than clear, with important Prelates and Catholic figures on both sides of the issue. Obviously, the progressivists, almost to the man, defend it.

    The Poem of the Man-God, I believe, is riddled with banalities, vulgarities, blasphemies and even doctrinal errors. There are endless idle conversations between Our Lord, Our Lady and the Apostles, all on a natural level. I think the best way to confirm these points is simply to cite some texts, which are so revolting that they speak for themselves.

    The quotes that follow are taken from an online edition of The Poem of the Man-God. A 48-page critique written in the 1980s – when the Poem’s popularity surged for a period, as it seems to be resurging now – by a Salesian, Brother James, S.D.B., can be read in its entirety here.

    An Infant conceived with original sin

    Valtorta portrays the Christ Child as a greedy infant of a sentimental Mother. It is difficult to find the respect we owe to Our Lord Jesus Christ in this imaginary immodest description of a nursing scene:



    The Man-God presents a naturalistic view of Our Lady and the Christ Child

    “Jesus opens His eyes, sees His Mother and smiles and stretches His little hands toward Her breast.

    “[Mary] ‘Yes, love of Your Mummy. Yes. Your milk. Before the usual time. But You are always ready to suck Your Mummy's breast, My little holy Lamb!’

    “Jesus laughs and plays, kicking His feet out of the blankets, moving His arms happily in a typical childish style, so beautiful to see. He pushes His feet against His Mummy's stomach. He arches His back leaning His fair head on Her breast, and then throws Himself back and laughs, holding with His hands the laces that tie Mary's dress to Her neck, endeavoring to open it. …

    “Mary nurses Him and Jesus avidly sucks His Mother's good milk, and when He feels that only a little is coming from Her right breast, He looks for the left one, laughing while doing so and looking up at His Mother. Then He falls asleep again on Her breast, His rosy round little cheek resting against Her white round breast.” (Vol 1, n. 35, p. 106).

    An Adult with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies

    Valtorta’s Jesus suspiciously displays ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies since he is constantly kissing and embracing the Apostles. When Jesus tells James of His approaching Passion, James reacts with great emotion. Jesus comforts him thus:

    “’Come, I will kiss you thus, to help you forget the burden of My fate as Man. Here, I kiss your lips that will have to repeat My words to the people of Israel and your heart that will have to love as I told you, and there, on your temple, where life will cease.’ … They remain embraced for a long time and James seems to doze off in the joy of God's kisses that make him forget his suffering.”



    Recently beatified Gabriel Allegra, a Teilhard de Chardin colleague, was a promoter of the Man-God Poem [Chardin was a condemned heretic naturalistic Pantheist and practitioner of witchcraft]

    When Valtorta describes the “favorite” Apostle John as having the face of a young girl with the “gaze of a lover,” we can hardly avoid having the impression that they have a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ relationship. Here Jesus is kissing John to awaken him:

    “Jesus bends and kisses the cheek of John, who opens his eyes and is dumbfounded at seeing Jesus. He sits up and says, ‘Do you need me? Here I am.’ …

    “John, half naked in his under-tunic, because he used his tunic and mantle as bed covers, clasps Jesus’ neck and lays his head between Jesus’ shoulder and cheek.”

    After John professes his belief and love in Jesus as Son of God, “he smiles and weeps, panting, inflamed by his love, relaxing on Jesus’ chest, as if he were exhausted by his ardor. And Jesus caresses him, burning with love Himself.”

    John begs Jesus not to tell the others of what has passed between them. Jesus replies, “Do not worry, John. No one will be aware of your wedding with the Love. Get dressed, come. We must leave.” (Vol. 2, n. 165, pp. 57-58)

    Jesus suggests a love-affair between St. Peter and Our Lady

    Jesus even jokes with impropriety with his apostles. Here, Jesus stands up and calls out loudly and angrily to Peter:

    “‘Come here, you usurper and corrupter!’
    “‘Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?’
    “‘You have corrupted My Mother. That is why you wanted to be alone. What shall I do with you?’
    “Jesus smiles and Peter recovers his confidence. ‘You really frightened me! Now You are laughing.” (Vol. II, n. 199, p. 185)

    Like Luther, Mary thinks: Let us sin to be forgiven

    Some passages are tantamount to heresy. For example, Valtorta presents the child Mary as expressing her desire to be a big sinner in order to merit the grace of Redemption:

    “[Mary]: ‘Tell Me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God?
    “[Anne]: ‘What are you saying, my dear? I don't understand you.’
    “[Mary]:’I mean: to commit a sin in order to be loved by God, Who becomes the Savior. Who is lost, is saved. Isn’t that so? I would like to be saved by the Savior to receive His loving look." (Vol. 1, n. 7, p. 23).

    A sensual Eve tending toward bestiality

    The work is also not without doctrinal errors, such as when Valtorta asserts the sin of Eve was not disobedience, but a sɛҳuąƖ act. There is also an insinuation of a tendency toward bestiality in Eve. This erotic description was supposedly made by Jesus:

    “With his venomous tongue Satan blandished and caressed Eve’s limbs and eyes… Her flesh was aroused … The sensation is a sweet one for her. And ‘she understood.’ Now Malice was inside her and was gnawing at her intestines. She saw with new eyes and heard with new ears the habits and voices of beasts. And she craved for them with insane greed. “She began the sin by herself. She accomplished it with her companion.” (Vol. 1, n. 17, p. 49)

    These are some excerpts I offer to my readers to evaluate Valtorta’s work. I believe they are sufficient for the reader to make a judgment of the whole.

    It is thus understandable that the Holy Office placed the work on the Index of Forbidden Books, which is reproduced below. It is also understandable that the Salesian Brother James concluded his critique of the first two volumes with these words: “Poem of the Man-God is so demonic that without a special grace from Our Lord Jesus, we could be deceived by the seemingly harmless statements by Valtorta’s Jesus, but they enclose lies and heresy, contrary to the teachings of One, Holy Catholic Church.”


    *


    Supreme Congregation of
    the Holy Office

    Decree
    Proscription of Books
    Wednesday, December 16, 1959

    The Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinals of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, to whom the safeguarding of things of the Faith and Moral is confided, after receiving the previous opinions of the Consultors, have unanimously condemned and ordered that the books by an anonymous author, in four volumes, be inscribed in the Index of Forbidden Books, the first of those books being:

    Il Poema di Gesù [The Poem of Jesus] (Tipografia Editrice M. Pisani);

    followed by,

    Il Poema dell'Uomo-Dio [The Poem of the Man-God], (Ibidem).

    On Friday of that same month and year, the Most Holy and Dignified Lord John XXIII, Pope by the grace of  Divine Providence, in an audience given to the Most Eminent and Reverend Cardinal Secretary of the Holy Office, after hearing the report of the Most Reverend Fathers, approved this resolution and commanded that it be published.

    Given in Rome, in the seat of the
    Holy Office on January 5, 1960.
    Sebastian Masala, Notary
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 04:13:31 PM »
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  • It's been well-docuмented that Pope Pius XII loved the Poem of the Man-God and gave it his unqualified approval. It was placed on the Index and signed off on by John XXIII 12 years later, and the primary reason seems to be that the Holy Office got its knickers in a twist because it had been bypassed when Vatican officials funneled the book directly to Pope Pius for approval.

    The Maria Valtorta website http://www.maria-valtorta.net has extensive history and docuмentation of the controversy posted there.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 04:41:54 PM »
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  • MMD:
    Quote
    It's been well-docuмented that Pope Pius XII loved the Poem of the Man-God and gave it his unqualified approval. It was placed on the Index and signed off on by John XXIII 12 years later, and the primary reason seems to be that the Holy Office got its knickers in a twist because it had been bypassed when Vatican officials funneled the book directly to Pope Pius for approval.


    Thanks for this little historical vignette.  I honestly didn't know this.  Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for some righteous trad hovering about this forum, as many of them do, to produce quotes from Abp Lefebvre and Pius XII, to the effect that both repudiated. excoriated or otherwise shunned the woman.  We know the good bishop recommends her highly.  Now, one of you shining keyboard knights needs to come forward with proof that the other two esteemed clerics reputidated her and warned the faithful against her.  BTW, unless one of you  can produce, I plan in future posts to be  thoroughly obnoxious.   :wink:

    Offline Nadir

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 05:02:21 PM »
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  • I said:
    Quote
    I was thinking the same thing, Miserere, but that does not mean there's sufficient poison in Valtorta to stay well away.


    Oops! I meant to say:

    I was thinking the same thing, Miserere, but that does not mean there's NOT sufficient poison in Valtorta to stay well away.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 05:13:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    ... I'm still waiting for some righteous trad hovering about this forum, as many of them do, to produce quotes from Abp Lefebvre and Pius XII, to the effect that both repudiated. excoriated or otherwise shunned the woman.  We know the good bishop recommends her highly.  Now, one of you shining keyboard knights needs to come forward with proof that the other two esteemed clerics reputidated her and warned the faithful against her.  BTW, unless one of you  can produce, I plan in future posts to be  thoroughly obnoxious.   :wink:


    I don't give a rat's behind if St. Pius X or an angel from heaven "recommended her highly"; this putrid blasphemous and heretical filth is the product of a disturbed mind and soul, and quite possibly of diabolical origin.  Not until the full authority of the Church Magisterium would approve this will I accept this garbage ... and I assure you that this will not happen.  Even the Novus Ordo's Father Mitch Pacwa, of EWTN fame, denounced the work as blasphemous and heretical.

    And stop the arrogant self-righteous "righteous trad" comments.  I will maintain that you have a deeply disturbed spirituality if you consider this work to be good and wholesome and true.

    Bishop Williamson is known to be excessively credulous vis-a-vis private revelation ... as evidenced by his long-standing support for the epic failure known as Garabandal.

    Sufficiently obnoxious for you, self-righteous pseudo-trad?

    Despite your appeal to "two esteemed clerics", the last authoritative position of the Church on this subject was uananimous condemnation by the Holy Office.  That's above the private opinion of any person, even that of Pius XII (his non-authentic opinion means absolutely nothing).

    Online Ladislaus

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    Jesus words at Easter to Maria Valtorta
    « Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 05:18:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    then I guess I'm going to have to say, along with Mr. Aikins, that the alleged endorsements of these clerics are enough for me too.  Have a nice day! :furtive:


    Then you are a lunatic and disturbed, "along with Mr. Akins"; how does the endorsement of clerics trump the condemnation by the Holy Office?