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Author Topic: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so  (Read 3779 times)

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Offline Recusant Sede

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Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2017, 06:24:48 PM »
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  • You really need to spend less time talking to Protestants and more time socializing with Catholics.

    I agree, Matthew


    Offline poche

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #16 on: March 27, 2017, 08:43:50 AM »
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  • I agree, Matthew
    We need to spend more time evangelizing Protestants.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #17 on: March 27, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »
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  • Cera,

    You've hit on no less than THREE topics in this thread -- basically you're looking for apologetics help to put to silence your (no doubt many) Protestant friends. I could be wrong, but you seem to be "bursting at the seams" with such questions, which sound like they come from Protestants.

    Of course people ask questions about the Faith here all the time. What makes it seem like you're "bursting at the seams" is that you've brought up 3 separate topics in the same thread.

    Are you getting assaulted by protestant objections to the Catholic Faith?

    If so, you really need to spend less time talking to Protestants and more time socializing with Catholics.

    If you are isolated from other Traditional Catholics, then I suggest spending more time with Traditional Catholics online. It's critically important to have Catholic friends. If none are available locally, then online friends are the next best thing.

    People always focus on the negative aspects of a forum like CathInfo -- members with characters flaws, the time wasting element, people that like to argue endlessly, people who hold an error or two about this or that -- but they forget that despite all that, CathInfo is a necessary thing. If for no other reason, it gives an outlet for isolated Trad Catholics to speak with other Trad Catholics.

    Not everyone lives in St. Mary's, KS, Post Falls, or a large Trad chapel in a high-population corridor like the East Coast.

    Some of us have minimal -- or even zero -- person-to-person contact with other Traditional Catholics. For such people, CathInfo isn't a "vice" like cigarettes, alcohol or TV -- it's more of a life-saving substance like food or water.
    Of my many friends, all but one are traditional Catholics. The one who is an exception is on her way in. What is the basis of all this animus? I brought up the topic of unexplained changes in the 1899 Douay Rheims because I have read the Bible for decades and I know it now says things it never said before.
    It never said the wolf will lie down with the lamb.
    It never said Jesus had sisters.
    It never had multiple incidents of beheadings.
    And it never had cannibalism: 2 Kings 6:28:
    "This woman said to me: Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and ate him. And I said to her on the next day: Give thy son that we may eat him."
    http://www.drbo.org/chapter/12006.htm
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #18 on: March 27, 2017, 05:20:33 PM »
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  • If Matthew misunderstood your situation regarding the milieu in which you circulate, does that mean that he has some animus against you?

    The question of Jesus' "sisters" has been answered.
    The query about the wolf and the lamb has also been dealt with.
    The beheadings are a different matter, but I doubt very much if they are an addition.

    So what Bible were you reading before you started reading the 1899 DRB?
    Is there a possibility that you are starting to notice things you didn't notice before?
    There is so much to unfold in the Holy Bible that one could never fully take in all that is within.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #19 on: March 28, 2017, 01:33:24 PM »
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  • What Bible were you reading for decades?
    Douay- Rheims - Hadock 1859. The reason I cite the 1899 is that's what's on drbo.org. My memory aside, it doesn't make sense that in the 1800s, the perpetual virginity of our Lady would be discounted by saying Jesus had brothers and sisters.
    Another problem with finding "sisters" in regard to Jesus is that I once explained to a Protestant acquaintance about the translation problem with "brothers." When I pointed out this to her, my D-R said "kin" and her KJV said "brothers." Neither one said "sisters." Her KJV has also changed.
    Also, when I first bought Christmas cards with Isaias 11:6 depicting the lion nestled with the lamb, I looked it up to make sure the words were correct. They were. Now that same Bible says wolf.
    I understand the resistance to believing such a preternatural thing could occur, but Our Lady warned us about "diabolical disorientation" and the Bible warns us about the enemy's "lying wonders."
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline chaz89

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #20 on: April 02, 2017, 01:59:10 PM »
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  • Matthew 13:55-57Douay-Rheims
    1899 American Edition
    55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
    56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things?
    57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
    Cera,
    The 1859 edition of haydock states the same thing- sisters. http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id30.html

    53 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed from thence.
    54 *And coming into his own country he taught them in their ѕуηαgσgυєs, so that they wondered, and said: How came this man by this wisdom, and miracles?
    55 *Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary; and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude?
    56 And his sisters,are they not all with us? Whence then hath he all these things?


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #21 on: April 06, 2017, 06:43:08 PM »
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  • Cera,
    The 1859 edition of haydock states the same thing- sisters. http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id30.html

    53 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed from thence.
    54 *And coming into his own country he taught them in their ѕуηαgσgυєs, so that they wondered, and said: How came this man by this wisdom, and miracles?
    55 *Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary; and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude?
    56 And his sisters,are they not all with us? Whence then hath he all these things?
    Hi Chaz,
    Doesn't that strike you as odd. I know that Protestant Bibles had mistranslated "KIN" as "brothers," but in 1859, how could it be that a Catholic translation says that Jesus also had sisters? How could the Church successfully defend the perpetual virginity of Our Lady with such a horrendous mistranslation?
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Peter15and1

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #22 on: April 07, 2017, 10:28:15 AM »
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  • Hi Chaz,
    Doesn't that strike you as odd. I know that Protestant Bibles had mistranslated "KIN" as "brothers," but in 1859, how could it be that a Catholic translation says that Jesus also had sisters? How could the Church successfully defend the perpetual virginity of Our Lady with such a horrendous mistranslation?
    How many times to people have to tell you - it is NOT a mistranslation.  It simply doesn't mean what you think it means.  See Croix de Fer's post from earlier in this thread:

    "Jesus did not have a biological brother. The Greek word 'Adelphos', meaning brother, is a literal translation from the Aramaic word 'Aha'. Aha is a broad term meaning brother, cousin, relative and kinsman; however, there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin at that time and afterwards. Aramaic was the language spoken in Jesus' time and the century that followed. The original Scripture was written in Aramaic and Greek, but even if the part referring to Jesus' brother(s) was written in Greek, this Greek was a direct translation from the Aramaic spoken at the time, because there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin, then the word "brother" (Aha) was used in it's place.

    The same goes for "sister" (adelphe)."

    The translation of "sister" is thus accurate, it's just the word "sister" meant something more expansive in the time of Christ than it does now.

    It's clear the Church, and the vast majority of the faithful, had no issue with this when the bible was translated.  Take your cue from that, and stop making up problems where none exist.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 08:14:41 PM »
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  • How many times to people have to tell you - it is NOT a mistranslation.  It simply doesn't mean what you think it means.  See Croix de Fer's post from earlier in this thread:

    "Jesus did not have a biological brother. The Greek word 'Adelphos', meaning brother, is a literal translation from the Aramaic word 'Aha'. Aha is a broad term meaning brother, cousin, relative and kinsman; however, there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin at that time and afterwards. Aramaic was the language spoken in Jesus' time and the century that followed. The original Scripture was written in Aramaic and Greek, but even if the part referring to Jesus' brother(s) was written in Greek, this Greek was a direct translation from the Aramaic spoken at the time, because there was no specific Aramaic word for cousin, then the word "brother" (Aha) was used in it's place.

    The same goes for "sister" (adelphe)."

    The translation of "sister" is thus accurate, it's just the word "sister" meant something more expansive in the time of Christ than it does now.

    It's clear the Church, and the vast majority of the faithful, had no issue with this when the bible was translated.  Take your cue from that, and stop making up problems where none exist.
    Over many years of talking to Protestants, with our Bibles open, in order to try to lead them out of error, I often explained the translation to them. The problem is that neither their Bibles nor my Douay ever said Jesus had sisters. It was not there.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline White Wolf

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    Jesus had sisters?
    « Reply #24 on: May 28, 2017, 05:15:06 PM »
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  • Were any of them at the foot of the Cross with Our Lady? ::)

    Seriously, language is a complicated thing folks.  Aramaic does have a denotation for cousin, etc, but it is all in the punctuation and placement of words, not the words themselves.  Contrary to evolutionary theory, language has been disintegrating for millennia. English and the other modern European languages are to the ancient tongues as whitewashed puritanical churches are to Gothic cathedrals.  Take cases, for example.  Greek had twelve cases, Latin 9, and English has barely 5- nominative, accusative, possessive, dative, and subjunctive.  
    Thank God we had St Jerome to translate and append, with his singular knowledge of Greek, Latin, Hebrew, the Aramaic group (He lived in Afrika) the existing scriptures, weed out apocryphal writings, and give Holy Mother Church the Latin Vulgate, which the Council of Ephesus declared to be the definitive copy of the scriptures.  The Douay Rheims is the English translation of the Vulgate and, though not guaranteed like the Vulgate, is easily referenced to it.
    One of my beefs with Pius XII was Divino afflante spiritu , which suddenly denigrated St Jerome to second class status and called for research into the "original sources", as though anybody could distinguish these after a span of over 1500 years.  (Try tracking your footprints over the leaves after a violent thunderstorm.)
    I humbly submit that we accede to the wisdom of our ancestors and thank the Holy Ghost for the Vulgate and the commentaries on the English translation such as done by Haydock and Cornelius Lapide, rather than trying to construct the wheel from chicken wire...
    Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us you are our only hope!

    Offline Albert Kopsho

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #25 on: June 12, 2017, 01:10:13 PM »
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  • (Blasphemy against the Blessed Virgin Mary censored)


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #26 on: June 12, 2017, 03:38:39 PM »
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  • CHAPTER ONE
     
    DEVOTION TO OUR LADY IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION
     
    In me is all hope of life and of virtue, in me is all grace of the way and the truth. Ecclesiasticus 24:25
     
    All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the door-keeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven. John Mary Vianney
     
    All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the manner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. Mary is the dispensatrix of all the graces God bestows. Ev-
    ery grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, and from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.  St. Bernardine of Siena
     
    Every grace which is communicated has a three-fold origin: it flows from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin to us. Pope Leo XIII
     
    The Lord has placed in Mary the plenitude of all good so that, if any hope of grace or salvation is in us, we know that we derive it all from Mary. St Bernard
     
    For this reason, all creatures are obligated to render her respect and homage, as to their Queen and Sovereign to whom they belong, and upon whom they depend, and will depend, for all eternity. St. John Eudes
     
    Even as Eve, having become disobedient, was made the cause of death both to herself and to the entire human race so also did Mary, by being obedient, become the cause of salvation both to herself and to the whole human race. And therefore, as the human
    race was made subject to death by a virgin, so is it saved by a virgin.  St Irenaeus of Lyons
     
    Mary has the greatest and clearest claims to our homage and praise: she is the salvation of the world; our dependence upon the august Mary is complete and universal. There is neither on earth nor in Heaven any justified soul, any one of the Elect, who does not owe Mary his justice and his glory. Ven. William Joseph Chaminade
     
    Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers - among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St, John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure - that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while, on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her. St Louis Marie de Montfort
     
    If our life were not under the protection of Mary, we might tremble for our perseverance and salvation. In her hands Jesus has placed His almighty power in the order of salvation. All the graces of salvation, both the natural and the spiritual, will be given to us
    by Mary.  St. Peter Julian Eymard
     
    Mary is the whole hope of our salvation. St Thomas Aquinas
     
    The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. Through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is God's will: that we obtain everything through Mary. Ven. Pope Pius IX
     
    A mediator, then, was needed with the Mediator Himself, nor could a more fitting one be found than Mary.  St. Bernard
     
    Mary is our necessary and universal Mediatrix. No one can go to the Son but by Mary, just as no one can go to the Father but by the Son. Only through Mary do we reach Jesus, since Jesus came to us only through Mary. Ven. William Joseph Chaminade
     
    Nothing comes to us except through the mediation of Mary, for such is the will of God. Pope Leo XIII
     
    To reach the Eternal Father, we must go to Jesus, our Mediator of Redemption. To go to Jesus, we must go to Mary, our Mediatrix of Intercession. St. Louis Marie de Montfort
     
    What, therefore, God hath joined together, let no man put asunder ... Take the Child and His Mother. St. Matthew 19:4; 2:20
     
    The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then, it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary. Pope St. Pius X
     
    We must never separate Jesus from Mary; we can go to Him only through her. Without Mary, we would never find Jesus. Whoever would say "I have no need of Mary" would be guilty of blasphemy! Our eternal salvation is at stake, and we are bound to honor her as the Mother of God and our Mother. St. Peter Julian Eymard
     
    Mary is the Ark of God, the center of the universe, the cause of creation, the business of the ages. Towards her turn the men who have gone before us, we who are now living, those who are to follow us, our children's children, and their descendants. If we have any chance of salvation, we have it all from Mary, Go, then, have recourse to Mary. St. Bernard
     
     
     
     
    CHAPTER TWO
     
    THOSE DEVOTED TO OUR LADY SHALL OBTAIN SALVATION
     
    He who shall find me shall find life and shall have salvation from the Lord. Proverbs 8:35
     
    If you persevere till death in true devotion to Mary, your salvation is certain. St Alphonsus Maria Liguori
     
    With reason did the Most Holy Virgin predict that all generations would call her blessed, for all the Elect obtain eternal salvation through the means of Mary.  St. Idelphonsus
     
    In the multitude of the Elect she shall have praise, and among the blessed she shall be blessed. Ecclesiasticus 24.4
     
    Her children rose up and called her blessed. Proverbs 31:28
     
    For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed ... who are born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of man, A of God. St Luke 1:48, St. John 1:13
     
    O Mary, thou art blessed among women, for thou hast brought forth life for both men and women! St. Augustine
     
    Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circuмstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people.
    Pope Leo XIII
     
    Bearing in her womb the Savior, Mary can also be said to have borne all those whose life the Savior's life enshrined. All of us, then, as many as are knit to Christ, have come forth from Marys womb: one Body, as it were, knit together with its Head. Pope St Pius X
     
    Although in the most pure womb of Mary there was but one kernel of grain, Jesus Christ, nevertheless, her womb is called a "heap of wheat" (Cant. 7:2) because all the Elect were virtually contained in it. St. Ambrose
     
    Mary is that Happy Ark, in which those who take refuge will never suffer the shipwreck of eternal perdition.  St. Bernard
     
    However great a sinner may have been, if he shows himself devout to Mary he will never perish. St Hilary of Poitiers
     
    Souls protected by Mary, and on whom she casts her eyes, are necessarily justified and saved. Just as it is impossible that they be saved from whom Mary turns away her eyes of mercy, so it is certain that they who are loved by Mary, and for whom she intercedes, will obtain justification and eternal life. St. Antoninus
     
    We believe that Mary opens the abyss of God's mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills; so that there is no sinner, however great, who is lost if Mary protects him. St. Bonaventure
     
    He who is devout to the Virgin Mother will certainly never be lost.  St. Ignatius of Antioch
     
    Not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned. St. Louis Marie de Montfort
     
    0 Mother of God! If I place my confidence in thee, I shall be saved; if I am under thy protection, I have nothing to fear; for being thy client is a certainty of salvation which God grants only to those whom He intends to save.  St. John Damascene
     
    Being thy servant, 0 Mary, is a surety of salvation which God grants solely to those He will save. St. Andrew of Crete
     
    The servants of Mary are as certain of getting to Paradise as though they were already there. Who are they who are saved, and reign in Heaven? Surely, those for whom the Queen of Mercy intercedes. The clients of Mary will necessarily be saved! St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori
     
    0 Blessed Mary, whoever loves you, honors God; whoever serves you, pleases God; whoever invokes your holy name, with a pure heart, will infallibly receive the object of his petition. St. Bernard
     
    0 admirable Mother of God! How many sins have I committed for which thou hast obtained pardon for me, and how many others would I have committed if thou hadst not preserved me? How often have I seen myself on the brink of Hell in obvious danger of falling into it but for thy most benign hand which saved me? Alas! Without thee, my dearest and all-good Mother, where should I be today? I should be in the fiery furnace of Hell!  St. John Eudes
     
    Would that everyone might know that I would already be damned already were it not for Mary! St Louis Marie de Montfort
     
     
     
     
     
    CHAPTER THREE
     
    THOSE WHO REFUSE TO HONOR OUR LADY WILL BE LOST
     
    He who angers His Mother is cursed by God. Ecclesiasticus 3:18
     
    The honor of Mary is so intimately connected with the honor and glory of Jesus that to deny the one is at the same time a denial of the other. Ven. William Joseph Chaminade
     
    He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only win those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation.
    No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary.  St Bonaventure
     
    To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings. Pope Pius XII
     
    If you would enter into Life, keep the commandments ... Honor thy father and thy mother. St Matthew 19:17,19
     
    Behold thy Mother! St. John 19:27
     
    Jesus honored her before all ages, and will honor her for all ages. No one comes to Him, nor even near Him, no one is saved or sanctified, if he too will not honor her. This is the lot of angels and of men. St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe
     
    There is a generation that does not bless their Mother, a generation pure in their own eyes and yet not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 30.11-12
     
    All the true children of God, the predestinate, have God for their Father and Mary for their Mother. He who has not Mary for his Mother has not God for his Father.  St. Louis Marie de Montfort
     
    Whoever does not wish to have Mary Immaculate as his Mother will not have Christ as his Brother either; the Father will not send His Son to him; the Son will not descend into his soul; the Holy Spirit will not make him a member of the Mystical Body of Christ; for a these mysteries of grace take place in Mary Full-of-Grace, and in her alone. And, since the First Born Son was conceived only through the specific consent of the Most Blessed Virgin, the same holds true for all other humans. St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe
     
    Your heart will either sing the divine canticles of Our Lady, or echo the cursed and unhappy songs of worldlings here in dishonor to God and vibrate eternally with the blasphemies and horrid dirges of the damned in Hell!  St. John Eudes

     
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Jesus had sisters? Douay-Rheims/ Haydock says so
    « Reply #27 on: June 12, 2017, 03:39:29 PM »
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  • St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant
     
    People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!

    St. Peter Julian Eymard 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24