Author Topic: January 22nd, Day of Absitinence or Day of Penance (Read 747 times)

katoliko · « **on:** January 23, 2007, 03:28:28 PM »

Were we supposed to abstain from meat yesterday? From some people I heard we had to do some form of penance, today I read on a blog we were required to abstain from meat.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2007, 03:54:31 PM »

I don't know what calendar they are going by, but in the 1962 calendar (used by the majority of traditional Catholics) it was just the feast of Sts. Vincent and Anastasius -- a third class feast.

Anyone know more about the blog he refers to?

Matthew

katoliko · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:35:56 PM »

http://www.nccbuscc.org/prolife/liturgy/DayofPen&Prayer12307.pdf

I found that when I googled it

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2007, 06:32:59 PM »

Note the modern philosophy --

...violations to the dignity of the human person committed through acts of abortion...

It's not because it's against God's (and the Natural) law -- but because of what it does to our human dignity. Dissing "man, who is practically god", is a great sin, almost like blasphemy. Sheesh.

Abortion is a heinous crime, but they have an odd way of looking at it.

Also note that even when the mainstream Church DOES call for penance, it's always very vague -- they don't want to IMPOSE any particular practice on anyone...perish the thought...

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2007, 09:25:39 AM »

This brings up the question:
Should a traditional Catholic heed such calls to penance from the mainstream/Novus Ordo Church?

If the Pope or the US conference of bishops calls for something good and lawful, that isn't harmful to the Faith, I don't see why we can't follow it in a good spirit.

As I mentioned in my above post, the mainstream Church seldom imposes anything concrete. Even this day of penance could be anything -- saying the Rosary, abstaining from meat, fasting, giving up sweets, you name it.

A good traditional Catholic should be offering up enough penance that he would have done so, even if he were ignorant of this new day of penance.

The point of being a traditional Catholic is to preserve one's faith. That is why we hold aloof from the mainstream Church, holding to what we KNOW is good and true (the 1962 Missal -- the last major release before the faith-damaging Novus Ordo) Of course the ideal would be for the Church to be out of crisis -- then the Church could react properly to (i.e., against) the modern world, and come up with new feasts, etc. which might be called for. But traditionalists give up that possibility for change (for now, during this crisis) in exchange for certainty that they will receive the whole Faith intact, during these confusing times.
The motto of the traditional movement: "In times of confusion, hold to what you know." It is a very prudent move.

For example, I would NOT recommend that we attend the local Novus Ordo parish to assist at the Mass "for peace and justice" where they will recite "Intercessions for Life". I read through the PDF file (above), and it is peppered with error. Particularly, they place the sin of abortion on the same level as the just practice of executing dangerous criminals.

See how feminine the Novus Ordo is? Women normally don't have the stomach for performing an execution. But men (at least used to) know that the good of society demands it. In so many things, the Novus Ordo is sappy, sentimental, and feminine.

Our Lord never condemned the Roman Empire for putting Himself, Dismas (the Good Thief), and Gesmas to death. Remember what Dismas said? "We receive the just reward of our deeds. But this man has done no wrong." He admits that his execution is just. And Our Lord NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL condemns capital punishment -- and we know that Our Lord spoke the truth always, never worrying about how popular his speech would be. He was plenty "controversial" when the truth demanded it.

In Christ,

Matthew

katoliko · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:56:29 AM »

maybe i should stop being so shy and just ask in the forum instead of pming people. here's my pm to Chant:

Quote

"I'm pretty new to tradition and I'm having a little trouble. They (the NO) are saying we are obliged to do some sort of penance or even abstain on Jan 2 (and it's been effective since 2003), trads aren't doing it. They say that we don't have to go to mass if the Holy Day falls on a Monday or a Saturday, the trad priest where I attend mass said we were obliged to attend mass on January 1, even though it fell on a Monday. The same priest said that though we should abstain on non-lenten Fridays, if there is a party, it is ok if we do some other form of penance.

I know I don't have a question up there, but does it kind of make sense what I'm trying to get at? Where does one draw the line on how obedient one should be, what one has to be obedient to, and what one can disregard? "

(woops, i meant 22nd and "in effect")

Quote from: ChantCd

This brings up the question:
Should a traditional Catholic heed such calls to penance from the mainstream/Novus Ordo Church?

If the Pope or the US conference of bishops calls for something good and lawful, that isn't harmful to the Faith, I don't see why we can't follow it in a good spirit.

As I mentioned in my above post, the mainstream Church seldom imposes anything concrete. Even this day of penance could be anything -- saying the Rosary, abstaining from meat, fasting, giving up sweets, you name it.

A good traditional Catholic should be offering up enough penance that he would have done so, even if he were ignorant of this new day of penance.

The point of being a traditional Catholic is to preserve one's faith. That is why we hold aloof from the mainstream Church, holding to what we KNOW is good and true (the 1962 Missal -- the last major release before the faith-damaging Novus Ordo) Of course the ideal would be for the Church to be out of crisis -- then the Church could react properly to (i.e., against) the modern world, and come up with new feasts, etc. which might be called for. But traditionalists give up that possibility for change (for now, during this crisis) in exchange for certainty that they will receive the whole Faith intact, during these confusing times.
The motto of the traditional movement: "In times of confusion, hold to what you know." It is a very prudent move.

For example, I would NOT recommend that we attend the local Novus Ordo parish to assist at the Mass "for peace and justice" where they will recite "Intercessions for Life". I read through the PDF file (above), and it is peppered with error. Particularly, they place the sin of abortion on the same level as the just practice of executing dangerous criminals.

See how feminine the Novus Ordo is? Women normally don't have the stomach for performing an execution. But men (at least used to) know that the good of society demands it. In so many things, the Novus Ordo is sappy, sentimental, and feminine.

Our Lord never condemned the Roman Empire for putting Himself, Dismas (the Good Thief), and Gesmas to death. Remember what Dismas said? "We receive the just reward of our deeds. But this man has done no wrong." He admits that his execution is just. And Our Lord NOWHERE IN THE GOSPEL condemns capital punishment -- and we know that Our Lord spoke the truth always, never worrying about how popular his speech would be. He was plenty "controversial" when the truth demanded it.

In Christ,

Matthew