Author Topic: IT's hitting the fan! (Read 1623 times)

Matthew · « **on:** October 06, 2008, 09:23:28 AM »

Now the DOW is in 4 digits for the first time in 4 years.

The Nasdaq (tech stocks) is down 30% for the year!

The S&P (the broad stock market) is down 28.6% for the year!

Imagine how much money some people must be losing.

And this is WITH a $700 billion bailout bill passing, and the Fed puts BILLIONS into the markets on a daily basis now. It's still not fixing things!

Dawn · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2008, 09:40:54 AM »

I am ashamed to say that I am happy to see the smirk wiped off the face of the media complex who helped steer this bill through. I should not gloat as I am sure we will suffer more and faster than the media organ. I just get so angry of those plastic department store dummies telling people what to believe.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2008, 10:05:47 AM »

It's true -- this whole "American financial system" just isn't REAL.

Sorry, but everyone and their grandmother can't simply sock away money into the stock market for 40 years and then "live well" for 25 years off the proceeds. Maybe a couple people could do that (if they're clever at picking stocks, etc.) but not EVERYONE.

Where does the money come from? Where do the "gains" come from? Inflation, mostly. So the dream of retirement off a 401K is just that -- a dream.

The only way to "retire" is to have a large family and hope your kids can take care of you when you can no longer work. That, and be VERY, very frugal both during working years AND retirement. You need to get rid of debt as soon as possible and start putting it into "reducing your monthly expenses". Get a solar hot water heater, solar panels, move to the country, dig a well for water, etc. Make it so that you can live on $200 a month -- THEN you can retire, if ever. Even then, you'll probably need to do something with your hands (crafts, writing, blogging, etc.) so you can pay that $200 (property taxes, food you can't grow, etc.)

But joining an "active retired folk" community for $1200/month and playing golf/scuba diving/mountain biking/world travel? Not gonna happen.

It's a pyramid scheme. The first guys in DID get to do these things, but unfortunately most of us are on the bottom. There aren't enough suckers coming in on the bottom to pay for OUR luxurious retirement.

And THAT is the sense in which I'm happy when I see the stock market crashing. It's for our own good. It had to happen. It's nice to see things get more "real" for a change, instead of more unreal.

It's sad, though, that a lot of good people got duped and will be suffering greatly in this Greater Depression. I wish I could have started Cathinfo sooner, and made it more popular. Maybe more people could have been warned. But then again, the vast majority of people DON'T WANT the truth. As the old movie quote goes, "You can't handle the truth!"

antyshemanic · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2008, 10:54:29 AM »

The fiat money system is a "DEBT SYSTEM SCAM" owned 'PRIVATELY' by a few families (international bankers) & "SURVIVES ON THE CREDIT" that keeps "YOU ENSLAVED TO THEM".

Here is a great article by a brave man...its a long read but worth it.

Congressman McFadden
on the Federal Reserve Corporation
Remarks in Congress, 1934
AN ASTOUNDING EXPOSURE

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2008, 01:42:37 PM »

Um...it just got worse. The DOW is down about 730 right now, at a 5-YEAR LOW.

The NASDAQ is down almost 1/3 for the year!

I didn't mention earlier -- the Russian stock market closed early again, after losing almost 20% in one day! Things are really getting serious.

Everything is looking very black this Monday (except maybe gold).

trent13 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2008, 01:57:42 PM »

Given the utter failure of a debt-based economy I wonder if the government would ever actually overhaul the banking system and either go to a purely gold standard or get rid of interest, or something. I don't know very much about how to fix the problem, but it seems to me if we go into a bad depression and then they artificially fix it (again) we will end up with the same problems down the road (assumin there is a "down the road"). Why not just address the real issue in the first place? oh, oops, silly me, I forgot, money makes the world go round, and if they can't make money off of money, what is the point of even having an economic system?

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2008, 03:03:20 PM »

Anyone out there still not believe in the Plunge Protection Team?

Hmm, in the last 40 minutes of trading the DOW miraculously rockets up 500 points to close RIGHT ABOVE THE PSYCHOLOGICALLY IMPORTANT 10,000 MARK.

So the DOW didn't CLOSE below 10,000 -- get it?

They must think we're really stupid. Sad thing is, with a few exceptions, they're right.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2008, 03:27:21 PM »

Well, the splattering continues today -- 500 point drop in the DOW to a new 5-year low.

orapronobis · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2008, 05:59:12 PM »

Chant CD,

If one were out of debt, had already put by some metals, had access to water and means of water purification and/or a well or water cachement system, and was fairly-well equipped as regards food storage and basic necessities--paper products, daily usage items, medicines, gardening tools and seeds, then would you be able to give a brief outline of what you feel would be the best way to go as regards providing a modicuм of the most vital energy/electric independence in the home?

A full solar system for an average house is still a costly venture at $50,000+, so not feasible for most of us. But if one were to have to manage without electricity, or if the cost of electricity becomes such that it is unaffordable, what would be your recommendations, and would you have an idea of the size of solar array and cost of a small system sufficient to handle the most vital areas of refrigeration, sanitation, some lighting, hot water, and such?

Also, wind systems are a relatively cost-effective possibility in areas with sufficient steady wind, but ours, as well as many others, is, unfortunately, not such an area.

As we are not in the country and cannot have a well, but still live in a somewhat protected semi-rural area, we've pondered a solar refrigerator and freezer (each of which cost $1000. + shipping, a composting toilet (on septic, but with a septic pump as gravity-feed is not allowed) which needs electricity or other power for the 12 v. vent fan (another $1000. + shipping, something for hot water and do not know much about solar hot water heaters and the costs and solar requirements to operate them, several individual solar lamps for lighting and reading, and a solar set-up to allow for viewing Catholic films and educational DVDs. We have no idea of the solar panel and battery-storage set-up which would be needed to accomplish the above.

We do already have solar ovens, and back-ups with woodstove with cooking surface, as well as butane and kerosene cooktops.

So, might you give us your thoughts or suggestions as to whether these would be the most cost-effective and prudent measures to take in order to have some degree of normalcy off-grid for those of us without the means to invest in full off-grid solar systems? Or might you have another idea entirely as to accomplishing these more basic energy needs?

Also, how does one manage to remain online with no electricity or ISP provider? I am aware that laptops can be run with solar panels, but what does one do re: internet connection? This is likely a techie issue which has a simple answer, but I am not aware of the answer, so would appreciate help here as well, please.

Thanks so much in advance for your help, and if this should not be the correct area in which to have inquired in response to your "It's Hitting the Fan" post, then please do transfer it to the proper area of CathInfo.

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2008, 10:47:29 PM »

Well, there's no good answer to "what about the Internet?"
The answer is simple -- you can't get on the Internet in a powerdown situation, and if you somehow could, it wouldn't matter because everything would be "closed" as it were.

Wow -- you are way more prepared than I am (though I've done pretty well, I think, for having only the space of a year or two)

Solar hot water systems are viable everywhere, even in the northern states. You might need a larger system in Illinois compared to Texas. Solar hot water gives you much more "bang for the buck" as far as what you get for your investment.

I built a small solar system with (2) 6V golf cart batteries for about $1000. I have one 60w panel, a nice charge controller, a PURE sine wave inverter (never get a cheap or "modified sine wave" inverter, as it will fry your electronics!) and a cart to put it on.

Aside from the cart which turned out to be horribly cheap, the rest of the system I'm quite happy with. I did a lot of research. It is a good "emergency power" system and can run a laptop pretty much all day, maybe a fan, or some lights. It can't do high-power devices like refrigerators, washing machines, etc.

Also, I'd say replace your educational DVDs with educational books. Unless you & your kids can't pay attention to a book, I'd say dive into good-old, low tech books.

Your goal shouldn't be to "have a setup that allows life to continue with 100% of modern conveniences" -- that would be very expensive and not very feasible. It would be better to think outside the box a bit more.

Remember, you're not going to have as much "free time" in a powerdown or collapse scenario. You'll be plenty busy with gardening, scouting, guarding your house, who only knows what. I don't think you'll be worrying about DVDs.

My wife and I had a discussion several months ago, "Is my solar panel setup a legitimate 'prep' item, or just a hobby?" and I honestly couldn't come up with many compelling reasons that we would NEED electricity in a collapse scenario.

We'd be awake/working during the day, sleeping at night. Food would be cooked over a fire/coals. Leisure time would be much more low-tech. Refrigeration would be nice, but my small setup can't power a fridge anyhow. And so on.

Matthew

orapronobis · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2008, 05:41:56 AM »

Thank you, Matthew, for your suggestions, and your personally-constructed solar system sounds excellent!

Not much time for a comprehensive reply at present, but just to ease your mind as regards cooking, that can be accomplished much more easily and with terrific results. Try a Sun Oven: "Rated as the top solar appliance in the world."
http://www.sunoven.com/usa.asp

Also, this might be of interest:
The Survival Center has been teaching classes for years. We wrote THE book on preparedness "Basic Preparedness" and just recently we released a 3 DVD Home Study course call "Basic Preparedness" the 3 DVD series. This is where you need to start. This is a 6 hour, here is how you do it course with lots of visuals, questions and answers. This was filmed before a live full day class here at The Survival Center's main campus in Washington State.

So, If you are really, really, really serious about being prepared for what ever may come your way, and want to be prepared to be on your own for extended periods of time, then this 3 DVD series and the book "Basic Preparedness" is a must have.

Link Here: New "Basic Preparedness" The 3 DVD series: http://www.survivalcenter.com/dvd.html

orapronobis · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2008, 06:13:25 AM »

Just a quick addition to the previous post:

The Sun Oven is not just for emergencies, but a superior means of food preparation, and makes food prep (assuming one has, or can find/hunt, food) in difficult times, an entirely different proposition.

One can order directly onsite for $279. with shipping included, or best price on eBay right now is $243., which also includes shipping.

Blessings and hope this helps folks feel more confident about providing meals for their families in the times ahead.

We are not connected in any way with Sun Oven, but have had one for years, so wanted to share in case folks were not aware.

http://www.sunoven.com/benefits%20of%20cooking%20in%20a%20GSO.asp

Benefits of cooking in a GLOBAL SUN OVEN®

Cooking in a SUN OVEN® is easy, fun, natural, and nutritious, while helping the environment. SUN OVENS® are ideal for everyday use in your back yard, at picnics, while camping, or in the event of a power failure. They can help keep your house cool in the summer by keeping the heat from cooking outside.

Even though it is called an oven, food can be baked, boiled, and steamed at cooking temperatures of 360° F to 400° F. There is no movement of air in a SUN OVEN®, allowing food to stay moist and tender and flavorful. Sun-baked roasts are tastier and more succulent, and sun-baked bread has unparalleled taste and texture. The aroma of food sunning itself in a SUN OVEN® is sure to please your senses.

Temperatures in a SUN OVEN® rise slowly and evenly, allowing complex carbohydrates time to break down into simple sugars, emanating subtle natural flavors. The even temperature of the SUN OVEN® prevents burning, so you do not need to stir your food while it is cooking.

There are two ways to cook in a SUN OVEN®. If you refocus the oven to follow the sun every 25 to 30 minutes, cooking times and methods will be very similar to cooking with a conventional stove or oven. Or a SUN OVEN® can be used for slow cooking, much like a crock-pot. You can prepare your dinner, put it in the SUN OVEN®, point the oven where the sun will be approximately halfway through the time you will be gone. Leave, and come home to a tasty, slow-cooked dinner. If you run late, there is no need to worry; the SUN OVEN® will keep your food warm, moist, and fresh for hours.

Why Cook in a SUN OVEN®? It's all about the Food!

The F's of SUN OVEN® Cooking
Cooking in a Food Friendly SUN OVEN® is Fresh, Flavorful, and Fundamentally Nutritious.

It's Fun
It seems almost mysterious to put raw food into a black box and remove a moist, tender, sun cooked dinner. You can enjoy a leisurely day knowing the sun is hard at work gently cooking your dinner.

It's Forgiving
SUN OVEN® cooking is the most forgiving method of cooking you will ever experience. Sun cooked food does not burn or scorch, and is very difficult to overcook. A SUN OVEN® transforms unskilled cooks into outdoor gourmets.

It's Financially Favorable
After the initial purchase, there is no more money to spend. You do not need to use electricity, or buy charcoal or gas. You can cook outdoors throughout the summer and keep you house cooler, reducing air conditioning costs.

It's Friendly to the environment
The sun energizes food without hurting the environment. The air is not contaminated with smoke or greenhouse gases, and no fossil fuels or electricity are required.

It's Flameproof
A SUN OVEN® can be used in parks that ban open flame cooking. There is never any danger of fire or of burning food or forests.

It's Fossil Fuel Free
The sun comes up every morning, and harnessing the sun for cooking does not deplete the earth of its resources.

It's a Family Favorite
Using a SUN OVEN® can be one of the most satisfying events you can plan with your kids. You can turn off the TV and computer, let the machine pick up the phone, and go outside and make a sun snack. In addition to healthy food, the family can learn about the power of the sun, nature and the environment through a fun tasty object lesson.

It's Flexible
You have the option of choosing how long it will take to cook by choosing how often you refocus the oven toward the sun. SUN OVENS® are portable and easy to carry, enabling you to use them in your yard, at the park, on the beach or while camping or boating.

It Frees up time
You spend less time preparing, tending and cleaning up sun cooked meals. You can place a frozen meal in your SUN OVEN® in the morning, set the oven where the sun will be mid-day, and come home from work to a meal that has thawed and cooked while you were at work. Cleaning up is easy because the even temperature of your SUN OVEN® prevents the food from burning or scorching your pots or pans.

It Foils the Forces of nature
A SUN OVEN® enables self-sufficiency in the face of the increasing number of weather and natural disasters which lead to power failures. You can purify water or cook your dinner in the event of a blackout.

http://www.sunoven.com/benefits%20of%20cooking%20in%20a%20GSO.asp

http://cgi.ebay.com/Global-Sun-Oven-w-Cookpot-Free-Shipping-in-Contl-U-S_W0QQitemZ110260420519QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

MaterDominici · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2008, 10:28:07 PM »

What all have you used your solar oven for?

We have one, but haven't used it much. The few things we made in it (I think squash for one) came out with a strange taste. That might have to do more with "breaking in" the oven and the pans that came with it. We just haven't had much time to use it.

Author Topic: IT&#039;s hitting the fan! (Read 1623 times)

Author Topic: IT's hitting the fan! (Read 1623 times)