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Author Topic: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven  (Read 1214 times)

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Offline graceseeker

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it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
« on: December 05, 2017, 11:12:46 AM »
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    • This is what Jesus said but then Jesus said it was hard for anyone to get to Heaven (Mt 7:21, Lk 13:24, etc)

    I think it is hard for a rich man bc he depends on his wealth and is comfortable therein.. and so he does not see his need for God, also prone to think that bc he is rich and others are not, he is special in God's eyes, a HUGE lie from the Father of all Lies
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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 02:37:54 PM »
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    • nobody cares

    about the rich

    (apparently)

    hey, I can relate

    most of the well off people I have known or "known" have been... uh... arrogant, for one.. and not sympathetic toward the non-wealthy
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    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 06:48:03 PM »
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    • You know what is worse than a rich man who is arrogant? A poor man who is arrogant.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 09:01:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Recusant Sede on December 05, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
    You know what is worse than a rich man who is arrogant? 
    A poor man who is obsessed with riches.
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 10:45:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Recusant Sede on December 05, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
    You know what is worse than a rich man who is arrogant? A poor man who is arrogant.
    Agreed!
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 10:55:15 PM »
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    • I am pretty sure that the "rich man" of this biblical passage refers to a man who puts all his confidence in his material goods, instead of God. He therefore, forsakes his Faith and duty to God, in having an immoderate pursuit of earthly treasures.

    It is this abandonment of God what the scripture condemns. Not the money itself. There is nothing wrong with material richness in itself. It is the unrestrained chasing of it at the expense of the Faith (even so far as committing sin for it), which is condemned. There are many saints who were rich and royal, so we know for a fact that the rich can make it to Heaven, also. 
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 02:44:03 AM »
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    • Matthew 7:21:  
    Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    .
    Luke 13:24  
    Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.
    .
    Actually neither of these verses which you have referenced says anything about riches, but rather to doing the Will of God.
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 04:52:18 AM »
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    • I used to work for a rich man, he wasn't very rich when I first met him, he had maybe a million give or take a few hundred thousand. By the time I left 6 years later, his business grew and he was worth +20 million. I garnered a very, very clear understanding of the evil Our Lord speaks of about the love of money from knowing him and why Our Lord taught that a rich man shall hardly enter the kingdom of heaven, and that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, and the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

    I think the love of money is the real or initial culprit. Apparently, very few can strive for heaven once they love money, that's certainly the way it worked for the guy I knew. 

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 09:28:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on December 05, 2017, 10:55:15 PM
    I am pretty sure that the "rich man" of this biblical passage refers to a man who puts all his confidence in his material goods, instead of God. He therefore, forsakes his Faith and duty to God, in having an immoderate pursuit of earthly treasures.

    It is this abandonment of God what the scripture condemns. Not the money itself. There is nothing wrong with material richness in itself. It is the unrestrained chasing of it at the expense of the Faith (even so far as committing sin for it), which is condemned. There are many saints who were rich and royal, so we know for a fact that the rich can make it to Heaven, also.

    Well, in the story, the man kept the commandments and did good ... but Our Lord pointed out the one thing lacking.  Yes, the rich CAN make it to heaven ... but for the vast majority riches put their salvation at risk or, at the very least, hinder them from a greater degree of perfection.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 09:31:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on December 05, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
    A poor man who is obsessed with riches.

    Well, that's why Our Lord used the term poor in spirit.  You have to have the spirit of poverty, which most cannot do if they live with actual riches ... whereas as some of those without riches still lust after them and therefore are not poor in spirit.  Poverty in Spirit revers to a lack of ATTACHMENT to riches.  Some rich people can be unattached to them, whereas some poor people can be attached to them.
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    Online Stubborn

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 10:03:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: GJC on December 06, 2017, 09:53:01 AM
    All great answers.

    Also worthy of contemplation: rich = pride

    From the Magnificat: He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away. Rich = the vanity of presumption/pride

    St Augustine:

    3. What, then, does He say? Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. We read in Scripture concerning the striving after temporal things, All is vanity and presumption of spirit; but presumption of spirit means audacity and pride: usually also the proud are said to have great spirits; and rightly, inasmuch as the wind also is called spirit. And hence it is written, Fire, hail, snow, ice, spirit of tempest. But, indeed, who does not know that the proud are spoken of as puffed up, as if swelled out with wind? And hence also that expression of the apostle, Knowledge puffs up, but charity edifies. And the poor in spirit are rightly understood here, as meaning the humble and God-fearing, i.e. those who have not the spirit which puffs up. Nor ought blessedness to begin at any other point whatever, if indeed it is to attain unto the highest wisdom; but the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; for, on the other hand also, pride is entitled the beginning of all sin. Let the proud, therefore, seek after and love the kingdoms of the earth; but blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Excellent! :applause:
    The guy I knew was DEFINITELY sent away empty. Along with his four marriages, he had what he really wanted, a lot of money - plenty of money - and he was miserable!
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 03:28:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 06, 2017, 09:28:44 AM
    Well, in the story, the man kept the commandments and did good ... but Our Lord pointed out the one thing lacking.  Yes, the rich CAN make it to heaven ... but for the vast majority riches put their salvation at risk or, at the very least, hinder them from a greater degree of perfection.

    The commentary from that verse (Mark 10, 22) that appears in my Douay Rheims version dated 1582 reads: "This is counsel of perfection (NOT a precept) which the Religious professing and keeping voluntary poverty, do follow".

    I think this counsel, which is not precept, also depends greatly on a person's particular state of life. For example, a single religious will probably be able to follow this council of perfection easier than let's say, a married man with a wife and many children which he needs to provide for.  
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 04:06:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Recusant Sede on December 05, 2017, 06:48:03 PM
    You know what is worse than a rich man who is arrogant? A poor man who is arrogant.
    I rest my case vis a vis how the poor are looked down upon and hated and discriminated against
    their sins, according to your post, are worse than the ones of the rich
    I don't think I will bother responding to your posts anymore
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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 04:08:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on December 05, 2017, 10:55:15 PM


    It is this abandonment of God what the scripture condemns. Not the money itself.
    then why does God (Jesus) mention the man being rich
    the man who is poor?
    this is what is wrong w/ Christianity in this country and eleswhere: people pick and choose what parts they will believe in and which parts they won't
    cafeteria christianity
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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: it is hard for a rich man to get into Heaven
    « Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 04:09:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 06, 2017, 09:31:07 AM
    Well, that's why Our Lord used the term poor in spirit.  You have to have the spirit of poverty, which most cannot do if they live with actual riches ... whereas as some of those without riches still lust after them and therefore are not poor in spirit.  Poverty in Spirit revers to a lack of ATTACHMENT to riches.  Some rich people can be unattached to them, whereas some poor people can be attached to them.
    I have had that same thought
    and also
    anyonw is poor who does not have a good relationship w God, and unfortunately that statement applies to virtually everyone, which is why most people end up in Hell
    according to the canonized saints
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