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Author Topic: Is this true?  (Read 1207 times)

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Offline Merry

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Is this true?
« on: April 21, 2019, 06:52:12 PM »
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  • There is a "miracle" of the Easter Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem every Easter.  Does anyone know if this is true?  Who is the Patriarch?  Orthodox or Latin?  Etc.


      

       
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #1 on: April 21, 2019, 08:27:55 PM »
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  • In 1238, Pope Gregory IX denounced the Holy Fire as a fraud and forbade Franciscans from participating in the ceremony.[15]Similarly, many Christians have remained unconvinced by the occurrence.

    Not that I’m a fan of Wikipedia, especially with regard to religion, I found this article interesting:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #2 on: April 21, 2019, 10:27:05 PM »
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  • There is a "miracle" of the Easter Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem every Easter.  Does anyone know if this is true?  Who is the Patriarch?  Orthodox or Latin?  Etc.
      

    I would tend to think it's a true miracle, suppressed.... or why else would the Israeli's close it down?  





    Church of the Holy Sepulchre closed

    Church heads announce closure of church following bill affecting church-owned property, regulating real estate sales and levying city taxes.
    Mordechai Sones - AFP, 25/02/18 13:52



                                                                                              Church of the Holy Sephulchre

    Flash 90
    Christian leaders today took the rare step of closing the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, in protest of Israeli tax measures and a proposed property law.

    The decision was made in protest against the bill, which is expected to be discussed today by the Ministerial Committee on Legislation, allowing the State to expropriate land that the churches have sold since 2010, as well as to protest the Municipality's intention to collect municipal property taxes on properties owned by the church. The law does not affect houses of prayer..
    "We are following with concern the systematic campaign against the churches and the Christian community in the Holy Land, in flagrant violation of the existing status quo," the church leaders wrote.

    It was not immediately clear how long the closure of the church, announced by Christian officials at a news conference which began around noon, would last.

    The bill proposed by Knesset Member Rachel Azaria (Kulanu) and expected to come up today in the Ministerial Committee, is supported by the Justice Ministry. The aim of the proposal is to block the trend of extensive land sales in Jerusalem, mainly by the Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church, to private companies

    The Greek Orthodox Church considers itself the second-largest landowner in Israel, after the Israeli government, with properties in Jerusalem, Israel and Judea and Samaria. But in recent years, church leaders have quietly sold off several properties to anonymous investors fronted by companies registered in far-flung tax havens, causing home owners of apartments on some of the properties to worry about unknown parties wishing to build on the sites of their homes.

    The other initiative about which church heads are furious is the move by the Jerusalem Municipality to collect municipal property taxes from church assets in the city. So far, church property has been exempt from paying property tax. But last month the Municipality issued a statement in which it said it had begun a major process of collecting municipal taxes from offices, schools, and buildings designated for various purposes and owned by the churches.


    However, Azaria made it clear that municipal taxes would not be collected from houses of prayer, which are exempt from taxation.
    The churches argue that the municipality's move is contrary both to international agreements signed by the State and to the historic status quo between the churches and the governments controlling Jerusalem.

    "As a measure of protest, we decided to take this unprecedented step of closure of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre," Greek Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic and Catholic leaders said in a statement. They said recent Israeli measures seemed to be "an attempt to weaken the Christian presence in Jerusalem".

    Christian leaders say legislation being considered by Israel's government would allow church property to be expropriated. "This abhorrent bill is set to advance today in a meeting of a ministerial committee which if approved would make the expropriation of the lands of churches possible," the statement said.

    "This reminds us all of laws of a similar nature which were enacted against the Jєωs during a dark period in Europe."
    Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat said, "The Church of the Holy Sepulchre and prayer houses of all churches are exempt from municipal taxes; there is no change in this and it will continue. But does it make sense to anyone that commercial areas like hotels, halls, and businesses should be exempt from municipal taxes only because they are owned by churches?

    "Why should the Mamilla Hotel pay municipal taxes and the Notre Dame Hotel be exempt? Unfortunately for too many years, the State has not allowed the Municipality to collect these debts on commercial areas that reached NIS 650 million(!). It is illegal and unreasonable. Either the State should return this money which is intended for city development, or we will continue to collect it from the churches as required by law. I will no longer agree that Jerusalem residents pay these huge sums."

    The Jerusalem Municipality said, "The Jerusalem Municipality maintains a pleasant and respectful relationship with all the churches in the city, and will continue to care for their needs and preserve their full freedom of worship. However, we cannot accept that only in Jerusalem, hotels, halls, and commercial businesses continue to be exempt from municipal taxes only because they are owned by the churches. This is in contrast to Haifa and Tel Aviv, which collect property tax from the business assets of the churches.

    It should be clarified that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, like all houses of worship of all faiths, is exempt from municipal taxes and the municipality does not collect property tax from houses of prayer."
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline poche

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #3 on: April 21, 2019, 11:32:43 PM »
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  • It is true that there is an alleged miracle of the holy fire.
    I don't know how true it is.
    Tis is in reference to the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 11:45:01 PM »
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  • It is true that there is an alleged miracle of the holy fire.
    I don't know how true it is.
    Tis is in reference to the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem.
    What is the miracle? A fire starts in the Sepulchre?


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #5 on: April 22, 2019, 12:26:21 AM »
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  • There is a "miracle" of the Easter Fire in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem every Easter.  Does anyone know if this is true?  Who is the Patriarch?  Orthodox or Latin?  Etc.


      

      
    Gosh! I wouldn't be there for quids!
    .
    This is claimed a "miracle" by the Orthodox. I don't see anything to makes me believe it's a miracle.
    .  
    From wikipedia:
    The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem or Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, officially Patriarch of Jerusalem, is the head bishop of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, ranking fourth of nine Patriarchs in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Since 2005, the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem has been Theophilos III.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #6 on: April 22, 2019, 12:49:12 AM »
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  • What is the miracle? A fire starts in the Sepulchre?
    The miracle is that it is alleged that the fire starts in a manner that defies natural explanation.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #7 on: April 22, 2019, 07:51:49 AM »
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  • This recurring miracle looks to be suppressed by the ʝʊdɛօ-world media... but why? :jester:

    Here's a great article on it from the Christian perspective: Link



    There’s something you need to understand about the church.

    There are six Christian groups who share the space: Coptic, Ethiopian, Syriac, Greek Orthodox, Franciscan, and Armenian. Only the Greek Orthodox, the Franciscans, and the Armenians take care of the Tomb of Jesus. The way they share the church is like what we French call co-propriétaire -- co-ownership. They all have their own part of the church, and they can’t go into another sect’s part. There are a lot of rules, and it’s very strict.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #8 on: April 22, 2019, 07:56:00 AM »
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  • The miracle is that it is alleged that the fire starts in a manner that defies natural explanation.

    Jeepers Pocher...

    You buy all the newChurch miracles... like the masonic Calles' deathbed conversion...

    Why not a little miracle at Christ' actual burial spot? :farmer:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #9 on: April 22, 2019, 08:36:10 AM »
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  • In 1238, Pope Gregory IX denounced the Holy Fire as a fraud and forbade Franciscans from participating in the ceremony.[15]Similarly, many Christians have remained unconvinced by the occurrence.
    If this is true, then I would not believe it is a miracle.  

    Then again, if one can believe that there are miracles in the heretical Novus Ordo church, then I guess miracles can occur in the schismatic Orthodox church.  

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #10 on: April 22, 2019, 08:58:20 AM »
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  • Wouldn't the Franciscans be the authority to speak on the matter, since they are " co-proprietaires" of the Church ?

    I love this photo from outside the Church



                   Bow your heads Jєω-boys and keep on walkin :jester:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline poche

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #11 on: April 22, 2019, 11:22:54 PM »
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  • Jeepers Pocher...

    You buy all the newChurch miracles... like the masonic Calles' deathbed conversion...

    Why not a little miracle at Christ' actual burial spot? :farmer:
    No one is obliged to believe in this miracle. There could be a natural cause for which in the future science will demonstrate. Then you might be able to do something similar in your own backyard when it is time to light up for a bar be que.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #12 on: April 22, 2019, 11:28:01 PM »
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  • Wouldn't the Franciscans be the authority to speak on the matter, since they are " co-proprietaires" of the Church ?

    I love this photo from outside the Church



                   Bow your heads Jєω-boys and keep on walkin :jester:
    Everyone should bow when they pass by a church or chapel where the Blessed Sacrament is present.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #13 on: April 22, 2019, 11:35:30 PM »
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  • Everyone should bow when they pass by a church or chapel where the Blessed Sacrament is present.
    Poche, this is a photo of Jєωs in the markets of Jerusalem. 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Is this true?
    « Reply #14 on: April 22, 2019, 11:56:11 PM »
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  • No one is obliged to believe in this miracle. There could be a natural cause for which in the future science will demonstrate. Then you might be able to do something similar in your own backyard when it is time to light up for a bar be que.

    Yeah... I don't believe the "burner of priests" Calle's miracle conversion either. 
    Anybody could say it happened, but where's the proof?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi