Author Topic: Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?  (Read 863 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
« on: July 17, 2014, 03:49:10 PM »
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  • Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    by Rod Dreher • July 13, 2014, 5:54 PM

    Michael Brendan Dougherty writes in praise of Pope Benedict XVI for establishing that the Tridentine Mass (also known as the “Latin Mass,” or the “Old Mass”) is always and everywhere licit. The papal ruling came in a document titled Summorum Pontificum. MBD says — rightly in my view — that even nonbelievers ought to be grateful for the old mass’s comeback, because it has inspired so much beautiful art over the centuries. In his 1980s book Once A Catholic, the writer Peter Occhiogrosso interviewed a number of prominent, or semi-prominent, people who are or who once were Catholics, about their life in the Church. One of the most surprising things about it when I read the book as a brand-new Catholic was how many people interviewed in the book — even an ex-Catholic like the avant-garde rock musician Frank Zappa — missed the old mass.

    Anyway, MBD, who is himself a Traditionalist, writes that the pope’s intervention did not save his parish:
    Quote

    Summorum came too late to save that community in Poughkeepsie. In the New York Archdiocese as then ruled by Cardinal Edward Egan, the offense of saying this Mass and publishing tracts in its favor was treated as a far more serious crime and scandal than clerical pederasty. Cardinal Egan suspended my Poughkeepsie priest, and effectively exiled him from the life of the church. Priests who knew about the situation observed darkly that if he had raped children instead of saying this Mass, his career would have been better off.

    The modus operandi then was that these Latin Mass people — “the crazies,” as they were called in the archbishop’s office — should be contained in Saint Agnes in midtown Manhattan or in a few obscure parishes along the Hudson River. Egan was all too happy to see that Poughkeepsie parish closed and the building sold. He smudged us out like a penciled mistake.


    This is a provocatively stated point, but nevertheless a sound one. The current cardinal archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, had a South African priest sent packing after he had the temerity to defend the Latin mass community in a homily (partial transcript here), and now threatens to shut down Holy Innocents, the parish where NYC has its only daily Latin mass. Meanwhile, Cardinal Dolan tolerates things like the “Pre-Pride mass”.

    Why does Cardinal Dolan consider the Latin mass a greater threat than a mass said as part of a Gay Pride festival? It’s mind-boggling. As you know, I’m no longer Catholic, and never was a Traditionalist Catholic, but for the entire time I was a Catholic communicant, I never understood the fear and loathing so many within the Catholic institution had for the Latin mass.

    By the way, under the plan Cardinal Dolan is considering, Holy Innocents parish will be merged with nearby St. Francis of Assisi parish — which hosts the Pre-Pride Mass. Priorities, I suppose.

    UPDATE: Dominic, a reader and former Catholic seminarian, says in the comments thread:
    Quote

    There is a very visceral attachment to this era of boundless optimism by some of the people who lived through it or participated in it which is very unfortunate and will not be gotten rid of until they’re gone.


    I think he’s really put his finger on something important, perhaps the most important thing about the ideology that cannot tolerate the Latin mass. It stands as a rebuke to the entire postconciliar project. To be clear, you can certainly support the Council and the Latin mass. When I was a Catholic, I did both (though I did not attend the Latin mass). But the endurance of the Latin mass, and its rebirth in the hearts of Catholics too young to have been raised in it (so they cannot plausibly be accused of nostalgia), is intolerable because it challenges the ideological optimism of the conciliar mindset. That strikes me as a plausible explanation. You?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    « Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 07:25:08 PM »
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  • .



    THIS THREAD HAS A REALLY STUPID TITLE.



    .
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    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    « Reply #2 on: July 24, 2014, 10:33:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat (Jul 17, 2014, 8:25 pm)
    THIS THREAD HAS A REALLY STUPID TITLE.

    Nonsense.  It simply repeats the provocative title of the article that's excerpted.  Laudibly including identification of its author and a link to it.  A site where, also laudably, its readers don't need to enable Javascript, thus all the bloated content that incurs, just to be able to read the comments on it.

    It sure beats the informationless  topic titles that are no rarity in this forum, e.g., "Question for sedevacantists": Yo!   Just make the "question" the title!

    Offline trickster

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    Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2014, 08:04:26 PM »
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  • Geremia, very interesting and thought provocative piece.  One of the interesting comparison's to me can be taken from the thinking of progressive and post modern catholic religious, academics and clergy.  Rev. Dr. Matthew Fox (Creation Spirituality, the Cosmic Mass, etc.) noted that since JP II with Cardinal Ratzinger at the head of the Doctrine of Faith Committee more clergy and priest were silenced, punished or excommunicated because they thought rather than those priests involved in sexual crimes against children or other people.

    There is very clearly an ideological war and the position of the church is to defend the decisions of Vatican II on the backs of the pre-council faith.  Clearly I believe we are the same church, there are many ways of reunderstanding our faith in light of new and emerging science, the inclusion of new voices and the inclusion of human experience..  it is not necessary to pick on the Latin tradition.

    Many young people as you say seem to be attracted to the pre=council sense of awe, about the all mightiness of God, the importance of eternity and what we need to do to work out our salvation...

    Anyways, I have noted the writer and will try to find that book...thanks for sharing your insights and thoughts on this.

    Bruce Ferguson
    trickster

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    « Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 09:13:40 AM »
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  • These EVIL novus orderites there is no stop to their evil intentions,
    such as using the slang word as they did in New York "NIGGERS" to
    describe Traditional Catholics.
    These are truly evil people trained in hell and there will never be a
    dispute about this. I was taught that it was a mortal sin to talk and
    think that way.  And these Novus Ordo People do not want a polite
    discussion were they are proven wrong.  It is the agenda they
    follow, and their conscience of sin is dead as an corpse rotting in
    hell.
    More you read into these people, more they will corrupt you and
    lead you also to HELL.  
    This is why Traditional Catholics argue to much is because out of
    true Christian Charity, these people must be ignored.
    Because they are on the road to HELL, and our Lord will tell you
    that in scripture.
    IT is a fact that these people cannot be converted back to the
    True Catholic Religion because their minds and souls are to
    corrupt.


    Offline trickster

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    Is The Latin Mass Worse Than Child Rape?
    « Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 01:19:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    These EVIL novus orderites there is no stop to their evil intentions,
    such as using the slang word as they did in New York "NIGGERS" to
    describe Traditional Catholics.
    These are truly evil people trained in hell and there will never be a
    dispute about this. I was taught that it was a mortal sin to talk and
    think that way.  And these Novus Ordo People do not want a polite
    discussion were they are proven wrong.  It is the agenda they
    follow, and their conscience of sin is dead as an corpse rotting in
    hell.
    More you read into these people, more they will corrupt you and
    lead you also to HELL.  
    This is why Traditional Catholics argue to much is because out of
    true Christian Charity, these people must be ignored.
    Because they are on the road to HELL, and our Lord will tell you
    that in scripture.
    IT is a fact that these people cannot be converted back to the
    True Catholic Religion because their minds and souls are to
    corrupt.


    Really?   Roman Catholic 1953, unfortunately I think you are coming across as angry, non-rationale and making your opinions sound like facts and conspiracy theories... care to anchor some of your ideas?

    Bruce

     

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